How should pedophiles and rapists be handled?

Life sentence, no chance of parole [private or otherwise]

7 (18.9%)

Execution [???]

1 (2.7%)

Restitution [Pay X for Y, time served, kthxbi]

15 (40.5%)

Leave it to the family and/or victims

11 (29.7%)

Ostracism

3 (8.1%)

Total Members Voted: 15

[mikehz]

But revenge IS part of justice. A proper system of justice ensures that the revenge is extracted on the right party.

How did you come to that conclusion?

Revenge is a very strong motivating force. Studies have shown that people will forgo rewards in order to extract revenge for wrongs done to them. Nature has instilled the emotion of revenge as a social stabilizer: Kill me, and my family and friends will try to seek you out and destroy you.

Such vengeance sometimes results in the wrong person being punished. As a result, governments undertake the responsibility for meriting out retaliation in place of individuals doing it themselves. "Leave the revenge to us," the state says. "That way, we will ensure the wrong party does not get punished."

When the state fails in this, revenge falls back into the hands of the individual.

[MobileDigit]

It doesn't seem like you have shown how revenge is part of justice. Could you clarify?

[ReverendRyan]

But revenge IS part of justice. A proper system of justice ensures that the revenge is extracted on the right party.

How did you come to that conclusion?

Revenge is a very strong motivating force. Studies have shown that people will forgo rewards in order to extract revenge for wrongs done to them. Nature has instilled the emotion of revenge as a social stabilizer: Kill me, and my family and friends will try to seek you out and destroy you.

Such vengeance sometimes results in the wrong person being punished. As a result, governments undertake the responsibility for meriting out retaliation in place of individuals doing it themselves. "Leave the revenge to us," the state says. "That way, we will ensure the wrong party does not get punished."

When the state fails in this, revenge falls back into the hands of the individual.

I can understand why it's an element of the current system, but your own admission that it can be misapplied (sometimes irreversibly) renders the system inherently unjust. It would be so much easier if it weren't so, but to have a truly civil society, vengeance must be replaced with restitution. As I said previously, restitution may also include imprisonment, but for restitution purposes, rather than vengeance.

[mikehz]

Victims, and the families of victims, have a strong emotional need for vengeance. Maybe they shouldn't, but they do, nonetheless. If government does carry out justice, then people will take it in their own hands. "Justice" is when vengeance is handled in a impartial and fair manner--that is, when all possible efforts are made to ensure the person punished is indeed guilty, and to make sure the punishment is not out of proportion to the crime.

I've never really accepted Ian's idea that mere ostracism is sufficient to deal with those who commit heinous crimes. O. J. Simpson, a known murderer, got off scot free. He's subject to ostracism, but somehow, I don't think it's crimped his life all that much. He's never going to miss a meal, and manages to get his 18-holes in whenever he wants to.

[ReverendRyan]

Ok, you're defining vengeance differently. We're more or less in agreement on all but the details. No more criticism from me.

[Evil Muppet]

I saw a youtube clip about Australia wanting to extend its sex offender registry to past cases and perpetrators and I have to wonder if any one realizes there is a fine line between justice and revenge, and to whether we have yet to cross it...

Your thoughts?

-- Bridget

Wouldn't that violate some kind of double jeopardy or ex post facto clause? 

[antric]

And Puke, I'm not sure what it is, but there's a different term for adults who are attracted to teenagers.  So no, a 19 year old having sex with a 17 year old is not a pedophile.

Ephebophilia is the term for adults with a sexual preference for post-pubescent adolescents.

[ladyattis]

I saw a youtube clip about Australia wanting to extend its sex offender registry to past cases and perpetrators and I have to wonder if any one realizes there is a fine line between justice and revenge, and to whether we have yet to cross it...

Your thoughts?

-- Bridget

Wouldn't that violate some kind of double jeopardy or ex post facto clause? 

Dude, this is Aussieland we're talking about, not the USA, their political framework is fundamentally different from ours since their ties to the Queen and the Parliement. Essentially, Parliementary governments have absolute control over the lives of people subjected to them. A classic tyranny of the majority situation.

-- Bridget

[theghostofbj]

I think they should be raped with a saw.

[Alex Libman]

Pedophilia w/o rape shouldn't be a crime.

If the "child" doesn't want to persecute, it's not a rape.  Parents can persecute on the child's behalf, but only up to a certain reasonable age, say 13.  If the persecuting party signed a contract saying they won't persecute a given person for an event on a given date, then they can't persecute.

[Taors]

PUT EM ON THE MOON!!

We're whalers on the moon...

[ILikeMoney]

Pedophilia w/o rape shouldn't be a crime.

If the "child" doesn't want to persecute, it's not a rape.  Parents can persecute on the child's behalf, but only up to a certain reasonable age, say 13.  If the persecuting party signed a contract saying they won't persecute a given person for an event on a given date, then they can't persecute.

Persecution and prosecution are two different things. 

And also, you are clearly a pedophile if you believe this.

[Evil Muppet]

I saw a youtube clip about Australia wanting to extend its sex offender registry to past cases and perpetrators and I have to wonder if any one realizes there is a fine line between justice and revenge, and to whether we have yet to cross it...

Your thoughts?

-- Bridget

Wouldn't that violate some kind of double jeopardy or ex post facto clause? 

Dude, this is Aussieland we're talking about, not the USA, their political framework is fundamentally different from ours since their ties to the Queen and the Parliement. Essentially, Parliementary governments have absolute control over the lives of people subjected to them. A classic tyranny of the majority situation.

-- Bridget

I know it is australia, but there is a prohibition against passing ex post facto laws in almost all countries.  It is also a common law nation and I am pretty sure that they have some other kinds of proceedural protections similar to the ones we have. 

[ladyattis]

From what I know, Aussieland has no such provisions.

-- Bridget

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

With a shotgun