The Free Talk Live BBS
Free Talk Live => The Polling Pit => Topic started by: fatcat on October 07, 2008, 09:43:02 PM
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the black market euthanists are pretty ballsy, and I appreciate the work of illegal abortionist as much as the next misanthrope, but for me its got to be drug dealers
never was so much delirious joy owed by so many to so few
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Drug dealers, mostly because it's so easy to get caught with shit, and they do it anyway. Most of the drug dealers that I've had understand that they're businessmen, and want to bring the best product possible at the lowest price for their customers.
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I said arms dealers, I think that as soon as some guy is caught with a bunch of guns, he automatically becomes a loony to a lot of people. I guess I just feel that nothing they do should in relation to selling weapons should be illegal anyways.
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Arms dealers.
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Can anyone really say that black market arms dealers provide that much of a service?
Getting a weapon is not an issue for me. Making one is not an issue for me.
There could be 20 arms dealers on my streets and it would not make me get any form of gun.
The only use I would have for a weapon is if I planned on killing/robbing someone and disposing of the gun soon after.
Carrying a gun for self defense where they are banned is pointless because you can't use one for self defense.
Self defense is most usually a surprise activity, I won't have the ability to orchestrate all the ballistic and DNA evidence because likely I won't know I'll be killing someone until seconds before it happens. So likely if i use a gun in self defense I will be caught doing it, and in the UK no one has used a gun in self defense for 10-20 years without doing jail time for it (aside from police marksmen of course)
As such, in a UK legal system, carrying a gun alone can warrant me many years in prison, let alone killing someone with it.
I would rather take the risk of having no weapon / improvised weapon against an attacker than to risk carrying a weapon and doing serious jail time for owning/using it.
Fuck, the risk of me being attacked is far lower than of me being searched, so carrying a gun regularly would be extremely unwise.
As a result a huge percentage of illegal arms trade in places like the UK, are for the specific purpose of committing a murder or robbery. The super majority of casual gun owners are removed from the market. Not that I would ever want to prevent people getting guns just because some commit crimes, but UK arms dealers are by no means providing a service to the everyman in the same way UK drug dealers do.
Black market drug dealers on the other hand is nearly the exact opposite. They take all the risk, and they provide a very valuable service to millions of people.
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Carrying a gun for self defense where they are banned is pointless because you can't use one for self defense.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
That, and in general, people like FTLMark should able to defend themselves properly, and pay the consequences after the fact, if need be.
That saying only works in America.
In the UK you will be fucking crucified for using anything but a wet haddock to defend yourself.
No one will be judging you. If you used a knife or bat to defend yourself you're likely to serve at least a year in jail, with a gun you're looking at 10-life no matter what the situation is.
They're now seriously considering a minimum 2 year jail sentence for carrying a knife on the street.
If you carry any object on the street, and it is deemed an "offensive weapon", you have to prove that its not a basic weapon, which means if you're a young male you're usually going to get fucked.
Not to mention you guys in the states have no idea the sheer level of monitoring and police presence we have in the UK.
Recently the police requirements for stop and search where reduced (now they only have to radio that its taking place instead of writing shit down), so they are going fucking apeshit nation wide, and the district I live in has the highest police - populace ratio outside of london.
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fatcat- why so many police in the UK, particularly London?
Is it the same sort of reasons we ..supposedly.. need them here in the states you reckon?
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This is a hard one to choose from.
I chose Arm's dealing because that's technically protected by our Constitution, and it shouldn't be illegal in the first place, well.. I guess neither should the others except in the case where it takes another human life (euthenasia, abortion). I mean, if a person wants to kill themselves, that's fine by me, although sad. But no one should make that decision for them.
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fatcat- why so many police in the UK, particularly London?
Is it the same sort of reasons we ..supposedly.. need them here in the states you reckon?
Density, mainly.
The same bullshit law and order reasons get trotted out, but simply put its far easier to police a tiny island with lots of people because 1 police officer can now effectively police 10-20 more people than they ordinarily could.
This also goes the same for the CCTV networks.
Public transport is also far more important in the UK. You can get practically anywhere in the UK in under 5 hours by train, and due to are heavily outdated road network (most roads were not built on the grid system), usually its easier to use trains
This makes trains and buses a huge magnet for the police search squads that go on patrols.
Due to the lack of weapon rights and a large welfare and failing school system, there is a fucking SHITLOAD of petty crime in the UK. Basically all the scallies who were dicking about in high school continue it for the next 2-6 years of their life because of the supreme ease of getting welfare in the UK, and the generally high teenage unemployment rates.
The reason you may have heard of the laws of knife possession in the UK tightening up is because the media have built up a frenzy over the last 5-10 years about the youth being "out of control", and that we should "bring back hanging" or send them to the military.
I mean, if a person wants to kill themselves, that's fine by me, although sad. But no one should make that decision for them.
So if someone is suffering from a severely debilitating disease (http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/society/law_order/ms+sufferer+in+euthanasia+case/2484627), and they ask their husband to overdose them with morphine, and they do, that person should go to jail no matter of the arrangement?
seems pretty fucking sick to me to want to punish innocent people just because you don't agree with what they choose to do with their lives
theres no such thing as a consensual crime.
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So, you wouldn't rather be alive?
That's not the choice.
I said, I'd rather take my chances with no weapon / an improvised weapon, than take the far greater risk of carrying around something thats going to get me 5-10 years in jail. In order for self defense weapons to be useful you need to carry them every day, as such they're useless when the jail sentence for carrying is worse than the statistical damage you will incur by not having a weapon.
I was searched twice last year, and attacked 0 times, I haven't needed to use public transport much this year so I haven't been searched yet, and in my home I have no need for a gun because no one tries to rob a house with a battering ram, and i have fuck off heavy doors with lots of bolts.
Also you assume that in any case I was attacked I would die.
Black market weapons are useless except for attacking/robbing people.
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I assume that you would be defending your life with a firearm, not your wallet. As for the home, I think it's a good idea. I don't think I suggested carrying concealed where there's a gun ban.
Well you said would you rather be dead, which assumes I would die if i didn't have a gun.
In the home its equally as useless.
Someone breaks into my house, i use gun on them, they probably die, my neighbors report a gunshot, no chance of me hiding the body and blood by the time police get there, I get caught, i go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect 20 of the best years of my life.
Seriously NO ONE in the UK believes in a right to self defense, you should phone the police and wait for them to arrive. If you want a gun you want to kill someone, and we shouldn't have the death penalty for robbery so you should go to jail for murder + possession of a firearm.
The simple fact remains that owning and using a gun poses far more threat to the quality of my life than not owning one.
Black market gun dealers do me no service.
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Carrying a gun for self defense where they are banned is pointless because you can't use one for self defense.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
That, and in general, people like FTLMark should able to defend themselves properly, and pay the consequences after the fact, if need be.
That saying only works in America.
So, you wouldn't rather be alive?
If you're going to be really pedantic I guess you could say you didn't say it because you said wouldn't you rather be alive than would you rather be dead.
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Carrying a gun for self defense where they are banned is pointless because you can't use one for self defense.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
That, and in general, people like FTLMark should able to defend themselves properly, and pay the consequences after the fact, if need be.
That saying only works in America.
So, you wouldn't rather be alive?
If you're going to be really pedantic I guess you could say you didn't say it because you said wouldn't you rather be alive than would you rather be dead.
Call me pedantic. :roll: Quite the opposite from me saying I'd "rather be dead?" I asked you whether you'd rather be alive. You see how you were completely 100% wrong there?
Nice name-calling, though. I never intended to get shitty over this. Congratulations.
whoa there, who's getting shitty?
I was just saying that "I would rather be dead" is effectively the same message as "I would rather not be alive", words are just symbols for meaning, "I'm not dead" means the same as "I'm alive" even though different words are used.
I only mentioned pedanticness because it seems odd you'd focus on the distinction of words instead of the similarity of message.
There's no ill will on my part, it wasn't meant as an insult.
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"Pedantic." That was shitty. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not deliberately jerking my chain, but I think you should re-read and admit that
"Wouldn't you rather be alive?"
is not the equivalent of a death wish--it's the opposite.
No, theres no inference to the desire to be dead or not.
You said wouldn't I rather be alive, that assumed if I didn't use a gun in self defense it would lead to my death. Thats it. Its the same thing as saying "would you rather be dead (than carry an illegal gun)", to which my answer was the risk of my life being damaged by the government for the gun is higher than the risk of my life being damaged by an assault to which a gun would save my life.
I'm aware you probably don't think that all acts of self defense need a gun to survive, but thats what you said and thats the point i was addressing.
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"Pedantic." That was shitty. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not deliberately jerking my chain, but I think you should re-read and admit that
"Wouldn't you rather be alive?"
is not the equivalent of a death wish--it's the opposite.
Now where was I being pedantic? (because I took the attack kinda personally)
:roll:
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(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o15/bakerbaker_2007/BLACKpride.jpg)
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Black market gun means not registered to you.
"...all I know was that when he tripped over the dog's chew toy I saw my chance...
...I grabbed the gun from his hands and...
...shot him with it... ...I feared for my life and that of my family...
...I hardly knew what was happening...
...all so fast... ...thought that was it for me...
...did I mention that it was his gun?"
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Thanks for the reply.
How many guns do you suppose people have regardless of the law? (criminals and law abiding citizens.)
..and what about the country? No more fox hunting and such?
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Thanks for the reply.
How many guns do you suppose people have regardless of the law? (criminals and law abiding citizens.)
..and what about the country? No more fox hunting and such?
Fox huntings gone, and there are still shitloads of guns around.
There are millions of guns in the country, (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/up-to-4m-guns-in-uk-and-police-are-losing-the-battle-505487.html)not just left over shit from the gun ban and farmers shotguns, there have been recorded uses of Mac-10s in the past 5 years.
The gun war is just as blatantly a failure as the drug war, and that failure is as blatantly ignored by media/public/government as with the drug war too.
'Guns off the streets' is all i hear, its as if they're still trying to get them banned.
* In the year ending June 2005, there were 10,979 firearm offences recorded in England and Wales (excluding offences involving air guns).
* This is a 6% increase from 2003/04 and continues the pattern of annual increases every year since 1997/98.
* In fact, the current number of firearms offences is almost twice that of 1997/98.
* Firearms were involved in 1,206 more serious incidents of violence against the person (other than homicide) in 2004/05 than in 2003/04.
* In less serious incidents of violence against the person, firearms were involved in 4,568 offences – a 31% increase from 2003/04.
* Firearms were used in 73 homicides in 2004/05 (under one in ten of all homicides), five more than the previous year.
* There were 2,659 firearm robberies in 2004/05 (4% of all robbery offences) – down 9% from 2003/04.
* 412 firearm offences resulted in serious injury in 2004/05 – down 6% from 2003/04.
I don't think there has been one recorded use of a gun in self defense that didn't get some sort of jail time since the hand gun ban.
Really its hard to stress the point enough if you're from america, It's not like people in the jury are going to look at the evidence and see if you were at risk and see if you tried to avoid killing them if you didn't have to kill them. If you even touched the gun you're guilty.
"Only people who want to kill people have guns, everyone knows that, look at America they have tons of guns and tons of gun crime"
Self defense here is non existence, if you kill someone its murder, no ifs no buts. You can just about get away with it if you use your fists to defend against a burglar, but there have been recorded cases of burglars prosecuting for assault when they were attacked.
As I've said before, and hard as it is to believe, its simply just not worth the risk of jail time. Shit, even taking the gun home to my house is too big a risk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/feb/16/ukguns.immigrationpolicy), its a mandatory 5 year sentence just for owning one. I'll take my chances with heavy doors and a baseball bat if I'm at home, and if I'm in a car I'll use a tire iron. Anything else that would be remotely useful as a weapon outside of my house will get me done on offensive weapons act (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1996/Ukpga_19960026_en_1) (hint: anything they say is an offensive weapon is an offensive weapon), and as I mentioned before I'm far more likely to be searched walking about than to be attacked.
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Crazy. What the hell sparked it, the rush to ban guns?
Sounds like the US in a few more years (or maybe just a few more hurricanes).
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gonna have to start burying guns.
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Crazy. What the hell sparked it, the rush to ban guns?
Sounds like the US in a few more years (or maybe just a few more hurricanes).
There has been a long running sentiment of dependence on authority and fear of those willing to defend themselves, but it all really culminated in the Dunblane School Massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_massacre)
Which led to the outright handgun ban (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom).
And in case your wondering, there wasn't a peep from the media in terms of the large rise in gun crime and burglaries, so don't expect reality to keep your rights safe over there in the US