Unofficial History of Drama in the Free State

[Amazing Richard]

I don't buy into "white guilt" or white supremacy.  I think it's all collectivist bullshit, and I'll be a lot happier when people stop trying to identify people by skin color and so forth.

Do you refer to "non-white parasites" out a belief that the "non-whites" are parasites, or out of belief that the "non-white" parasites are somehow different from the white parasites?  Which is it?  You're doing a good job of portraying the collectivism I'm talking about.

Nice touch buy turning it up a notch to "white supremacy" from white separatist.  

Ken....I bet you feel real special about yerself that you got yerself a chinese bride, to prove to the world that you are so above it all. And you prolly think yer some trailblazer, too, and that us "racist" whites could learn a thing or two from you.

Teach me Ken...Tell me why I should get me some chinese pussy.

White supremacists and white separatists are fellow travelers, and generally just bullshit racists with subtle nuances as for the hatred.  They're pieces of shit just like you.  I used white supremacist in this case because you "turned it up a notch" with the tone of your screed.  You could try, and fail, to argue that referring to "non-white parasites" is not white supremacist, but you still haven't indicated whether you refer to "non-white parasites" out a belief that the "non-whites" are parasites, or out of belief that the "non-white" parasites are somehow worse than white parasites.

I know processing this is above your IQ, but Taiwanese ≠ Chinese, and my wife and I married because we love each other, not because we give a shit what anyone else thinks about it, least of all you.

This is just typical anti-white bullshit, Ken. This thread is not even the right place to discuss these things. Start a new thread and try to "catch a Nazi", and I would be happy to contribute to that thread. In the meantime....enjoy yer little oriental fetish, while doing yer best to perfect anti-white sentiment.

[Fred]

now, someone's just being a bitch.....

[FTL_Mark]

So now the thing that you were jumping up and down saying didn't happen is insignificant?

See, this is where your brain is like a not-brain. Kid rape and kid fucking and attempted coverups and unjust shunning aren't insignificant ever. EVER.

S'a bunch of bullshit that the perpetrators should be fucking ashamed of.

John- I was here for all of this. I will admit to only being peripherally involved, but I was one of the first people Summer called about this. I am telling you the girl's story changed from the onset. She said initially that no touching occurred that I would consider inappropriate. The couple in question appeared to have philosophical beliefs that I am certainly not in-line with, but thinking isn't a crime. Summer seemed to progressively get whipped into a fervor, the story got more dastardly from there, then she started to lash out. I frankly, am glad that all of them are gone.

What this says to me about the Keene activists:
1) Ian has his same weird ideas about young people being able to choose to have sex for themselves.
2) The Keene activists handled this relatively well. Some jumped to conclusions, some kept their heads. They talked with all parties. We generally came to the same conclusions.
3) JJ is a real gem of a guy.

No child has been molested here from what I can ascertain, therefore getting the cops involved is inappropriate.

[blackie]

I was here for all of this. I will admit to only being peripherally involved, but I was one of the first people Summer called about this. I am telling you the girl's story changed from the onset. She said initially that no touching occurred that I would consider inappropriate.

I'm glad you are here to answer questions. I still don't understand what happened.

What did the story change to?

The couple in question appeared to have philosophical beliefs that I am certainly not in-line with, but thinking isn't a crime. Summer seemed to progressively get whipped into a fervor, the story got more dastardly from there, then she started to lash out.

Who's idea was it to have a 2:30AM meeting, and why? Who arranged a pedo couple and a single mother living together? Do you understand how doing things like that could whip someone up? What town did they live in?

How did she lash out...by posting things on Facebook?

2) The Keene activists handled this relatively well...

We generally came to the same conclusions.

What conclusions did you come to?

3) JJ is a real gem of a guy.

Is he the one that kicked out a single mother and a baby at 11PM?

I'm not sure why he was involved in this. But from what I read, he didn't come off as a gem. Can you explain why he is a gem in this situation?

No child has been molested here from what I can ascertain, therefore getting the cops involved is inappropriate.

How do you ascertain whether or not a child has been molested?

How did the cops get involved, and about what?

Why do you think the pedo couple has moved 8 9 times in the last two years?

[John Shaw]

So now the thing that you were jumping up and down saying didn't happen is insignificant?

See, this is where your brain is like a not-brain. Kid rape and kid fucking and attempted coverups and unjust shunning aren't insignificant ever. EVER.

S'a bunch of bullshit that the perpetrators should be fucking ashamed of.

John- I was here for all of this. I will admit to only being peripherally involved, but I was one of the first people Summer called about this. I am telling you the girl's story changed from the onset. She said initially that no touching occurred that I would consider inappropriate. The couple in question appeared to have philosophical beliefs that I am certainly not in-line with, but thinking isn't a crime. Summer seemed to progressively get whipped into a fervor, the story got more dastardly from there, then she started to lash out. I frankly, am glad that all of them are gone.

What this says to me about the Keene activists:
1) Ian has his same weird ideas about young people being able to choose to have sex for themselves.
2) The Keene activists handled this relatively well. Some jumped to conclusions, some kept their heads. They talked with all parties. We generally came to the same conclusions.
3) JJ is a real gem of a guy.

No child has been molested here from what I can ascertain, therefore getting the cops involved is inappropriate.

Well I don't think she's ever claimed the sex happened between these people and a child. As a matter of fact she sez that the dude specifically claimed to have never actually gone through with the sexual act with a kid, apart from letting his kid play with his cock while they were taking a shower, which is as oogy as all fuck but I guess somewhat debatable without (Thankfully!) knowing the details.

On your points -

1. Yes.
2. I have a thing about disclosure. When I see what looks like people covering stuff up or twisting the story (On either side) I get really crabby. Once a scandal happens, I tend to believe the person who jumps up and starts screaming the whole story as loudly as possible. People who hesitate to tell their side make me dubious. Someone from the other side of this thing, rather than just repeating "She's a liar who called the police!" ( A statement that lacks any sort of weight.) should have written up the whole story from the opposing view. What it looks like at this point is that this woman had a negative experience, made it public in high detail, and was met with one or two sentence denials and accusations that she is "Crazy" and "A dirty statist" and so on, and depicting these people as perfectly normal, moral people who have an unusual but perfectly acceptable point of view.

If the girl was lying, someone should have come forward and detailed the entire scuttlebutt the same way she did, and provided multiple sources of conflicting viewpoints and rebutted her point by point. No one did this that I saw. What I saw, repeatedly, is "She's a liar and a bad person who called the police (But apparently filed no report against anyone.) and she lies and lies and she's crazy." But that's what we got. A bunch of denials and closed mouths and the implication that this was "Keene business" and no one else's, which looks really bad. In general, if you're the "Good guy", this sort of shit needs to be addressed.

I know you, and I trust you as a source with feet on the ground over there, and what you've said certainly sways my opinion of the situation simply on the merit of you being a friend I can trust, but I gotta disagree with you about how this was handled.

3. Everything I've ever heard about JJ is that he's a cool dude. I was pretty surprised about all of this and was wondering if his arm was being twisted by someone who had the ability/power to hold some sort of incentive/disincentive over his head.

As for the police thing - As I understood it, she called the police to get a ride, and filed no report. She used them because she apparently had no one else to call and didn't want to go where JJ said he was taking her. (A stranger's place) This is not something I'd do, personally, but I'm not a twenty something single mom who just moved across the country with my baby and have no resources to get help if I need it, either.  

[Cognitive Dissident]

I don't buy into "white guilt" or white supremacy.  I think it's all collectivist bullshit, and I'll be a lot happier when people stop trying to identify people by skin color and so forth.

Do you refer to "non-white parasites" out a belief that the "non-whites" are parasites, or out of belief that the "non-white" parasites are somehow different from the white parasites?  Which is it?  You're doing a good job of portraying the collectivism I'm talking about.

Nice touch buy turning it up a notch to "white supremacy" from white separatist.  

Ken....I bet you feel real special about yerself that you got yerself a chinese bride, to prove to the world that you are so above it all. And you prolly think yer some trailblazer, too, and that us "racist" whites could learn a thing or two from you.

Teach me Ken...Tell me why I should get me some chinese pussy.

White supremacists and white separatists are fellow travelers, and generally just bullshit racists with subtle nuances as for the hatred.  They're pieces of shit just like you.  I used white supremacist in this case because you "turned it up a notch" with the tone of your screed.  You could try, and fail, to argue that referring to "non-white parasites" is not white supremacist, but you still haven't indicated whether you refer to "non-white parasites" out a belief that the "non-whites" are parasites, or out of belief that the "non-white" parasites are somehow worse than white parasites.

I know processing this is above your IQ, but Taiwanese ≠ Chinese, and my wife and I married because we love each other, not because we give a shit what anyone else thinks about it, least of all you.

This is just typical anti-white bullshit, Ken. This thread is not even the right place to discuss these things. Start a new thread and try to "catch a Nazi", and I would be happy to contribute to that thread. In the meantime....enjoy yer little oriental fetish, while doing yer best to perfect anti-white sentiment.

Yeah, I'm a white guy and I'm "anti-white."  You're a fucking idiot.  If it's not the right place to discuss these things, why did you bring it up, bitch?

http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/drama-in-the-free-state/msg631855/#msg631855

[dalebert]

What Mark said.  (That's essentially what I was about to try to convey.)

If the girl was lying, someone should have come forward and detailed the entire scuttlebutt the same way she did, and provided multiple sources of conflicting viewpoints and rebutted her point by point.

I disagree.  Back and forth online discussions like that, particularly about such an emotionally-charged subject that almost eliminates any hope for rationality, just serves like an engine to drum up the drama.  It's gossip at its worst.  For example...

...apart from letting his kid play with his cock while they were taking a shower, which is as oogy as all fuck but I guess somewhat debatable without (Thankfully!) knowing the details.

You admit to not knowing the details but you're already changing the details and repeating it into the ether.  I heard about this 2nd hand which is also unreliable and I heard the kid asked if he could touch it and was told "yes".  Without even hearing it 2nd-hand, you've already described it as "playing with".  Another person who hears about it will escalate it again and so on.  I'm already regretting bringing it up again when I don't know.  I admit to finding it creepy enough along with the POVs that if I had kids, I'd never allow them alone with such a person and I'd tell people I know to do the same, but not nearly enough to launch a public campaign to out them.

Just the fact that these things were so honestly revealed without any incident or inquest ought to count for something.  It's like worrying that the person open-carrying is going to use it to commit a crime against you.  The greatest threats to kids are much less honest people but catching them is as difficult as catching the people who hide their guns for nefarious purposes.  You have to wait for them to act.  It sucks, but the alternative is a guilty until proven innocent culture, e.g. a police state and no privacy or freedom.  Now that they've been run out of town, they will likely be much less open about their views to other parents.  If they actually have any inclination to act, they're more likely to get that opportunity and to not get caught.

[blackie]

You have to wait for them to act.

No you don't. Do you have to wait for someone with homophobia to physically attack a gay person before you say something publicly about their fucked up beliefs?

[John Shaw]

I disagree.  Back and forth online discussions like that, particularly about such an emotionally-charged subject that almost eliminates any hope for rationality, just serves like an engine to drum up the drama.  It's gossip at its worst.  For example...

Dale, you have to agree that this conversation wouldn't even be happening if people were being up front about this whole thing.

Secrecy breeds suspicion.

You admit to not knowing the details but you're already changing the details and repeating it into the ether.  

No, I used terminology that you didn't like to describe something. Terminology that fits the action. Kid is taking a shower with father. Kid asks to touch his penis. Father consents. The phrase "Playing with" applies.

Just the fact that these things were so honestly revealed without any incident or inquest ought to count for something.  

They weren't Dale. It wasn't addressed at all beyond "She's a liar and she's crazy and we're shunning her." and that only happened after she told the world in her FB posts.

You have to wait for them to act.  It sucks, but the alternative is a guilty until proven innocent culture, e.g. a police state and no privacy or freedom.  

Not when they vocalize intent and desire, and SHE DIDN'T CONTACT THE GOVERNMENT ABOUT THE KID SEX ISSUE AT ALL.

Now that they've been run out of town, they will likely be much less open about their views to other parents.  If they actually have any inclination to act, they're more likely to get that opportunity and to not get caught.

Who "ran them out of town", Dale? Where's the police report? What town? Who reported them? You are saying the these people shouldn't be persecuted for just their words, yes? Well what did Summer do other than use words?

If you have evidence that Summer reported these people to the government, I want to see it. Until then, you are just saying that she did the same thing that they did, which is talk and not act.

So why is it that she is shunned and they weren't? You said "You have to wait for them to act." - So why is Summer a bad person again?

Again, show me where she reported these people to government and I will retract everything I've said.

[dalebert]

No you don't. Do you have to wait for someone with homophobia to physically attack a gay person before you say something publicly about their fucked up beliefs?

If the environment were clearly such that they would likely face government harassment simply for expressing said beliefs, then yes.

[John Shaw]

No you don't. Do you have to wait for someone with homophobia to physically attack a gay person before you say something publicly about their fucked up beliefs?

If the environment were clearly such that they would likely face government harassment simply for expressing said beliefs, then yes.

Wait wait wait - So are you saying now that liberty types are obligated to protect bad people from government through obfuscation?!?!

We're not allowed to talk publicly in case government people are watching?

Please clarify because I can't believe that you meant it that way.

[John Shaw]

Just for the record -

I'd love to be wrong about all of this. Especially toward Mark and Dale. You know I love you guys.

Seriously. Find me the reports she filed or tell me what town it is so I can find out myself.

[dalebert]

Dale, you have to agree that this conversation wouldn't even be happening if people were being up front about this whole thing.  ...Secrecy breeds suspicion.

I absolutely do not believe that.  There's a difference between secrecy and just not wanting to have a huge public outing on a subject like this where it's so very common for people to dismiss all rational thought in favor of emotionalism.

No, I used terminology that you didn't like to describe something. Terminology that fits the action. Kid is taking a shower with father. Kid asks to touch his penis. Father consents. The phrase "Playing with" applies.

"Playing with" means something very specific when you're talking about a penis, and you know it, and that cannot be inferred from a far-beyond-2nd-hand conveyance of what was said.

They weren't Dale. It wasn't addressed at all beyond "She's a liar and she's crazy and we're shunning her." and that only happened after she told the world in her FB posts.

I was talking about the parents who revealed their controversial views on consent.  Their openness was the only reason anyone could know anything at all.

SHE DIDN'T CONTACT THE GOVERNMENT ABOUT THE KID SEX ISSUE AT ALL.

Can we all stop playing ignorant about the culture we live in?  Have you watched "To Catch a Predator" where they set people up for a staged sex opportunity with someone a few months short of the legal age of consent so they can lecture them, demonize them, lock them up, and then put them on the sex offender registry for harassment to follow them the rest of their lives?

We are living in the culture of a modern witch hunt.  If you don't join in the witch hunt in today's culture, you draw suspicion to yourself for being a witch and that's a very scary place to be.  That's the fear that's fueling this drama.

Summer stood in the middle of the proverbial town square, pointed her finger and cried "Witch!" in the modern equivalent of old Salem, MA.

John, everyone here knows you're a good person and that you oppose child predation.  You have nothing to prove.  Now drop out of the fucking witch hunt and quit defending Summer.

[dalebert]

We're not allowed to talk publicly in case government people are watching?

Please clarify because I can't believe that you meant it that way.

I'm saying that if I knew someone would get burned at the stake by the government merely for expressing homophobic views, then I would work to change that  and in the meantime I would feel guilt for exposing them.  I believe free speech is crucial for a free society and I believe it's the most controversial speech that needs protecting.  I'm not going to dismiss myself of any sense of responsibility when I can just say a few words that will bring down the wrath of government on people just for their speech.  That's awfully convenient and playing ignorant to the gun in the room.

[John Shaw]

Dale, you have to agree that this conversation wouldn't even be happening if people were being up front about this whole thing.  ...Secrecy breeds suspicion.

I absolutely do not believe that.  There's a difference between secrecy and just not wanting to have a huge public outing on a subject like this where it's so very common for people to dismiss all rational thought in favor of emotionalism.

... Posting on your facebook page qualifies as a "Huge public outing"?

"Playing with" means something very specific when you're talking about a penis, and you know it, and that cannot be inferred from a far-beyond-2nd-hand conveyance of what was said.

In the context of the entire conversation was centered on the fact that the dude wants to fuck children, it certainly does, Dale. That was what they were talking about and he volunteered that information at that time.

I was talking about the parents who revealed their controversial views on consent.  Their openness was the only reason anyone could know anything at all.

Fair enough.

Can we all stop playing ignorant about the culture we live in?  Have you watched "To Catch a Predator" where they set people up for a staged sex opportunity with someone a few months short of the legal age of consent so they can lecture them, demonize them, lock them up, and then put them on the sex offender registry for harassment to follow them the rest of their lives?

We are living in the culture of a modern witch hunt.  If you don't join in the witch hunt in today's culture, you draw suspicion to yourself for being a witch and that's a very scary place to be.  That's the fear that's fueling this drama.

Summer stood in the middle of the proverbial town square, pointed her finger and cried "Witch!" in the modern equivalent of old Salem, MA.

1. Who is "We"?

2. In a free society ostracism requires an open accusation, publicly. In a statist society it inevitably leads to force by government. There is a conflict here because while "we" are trying to live like free people, "we" are defacto in a statist society. If you ostracize, you do it publicly. The state can see that.

So, are you suggesting that no one ostracize anyone for behavior that overlaps with the state's monopolies? That any behavior, no matter how bad, shouldn't be properly ostracized because the state might see it and get involved? Are you suggesting that doing so is to collude with the state and deliberately initiating force? That's a big assed can of worms, brother.

John, everyone here knows you're a good person and that you oppose child predation.  You have nothing to prove.  Now drop out of the fucking witch hunt and quit defending Summer.

This is not about me proving to the world that I'm a good guy, and your suggestion that I am so emotionally immature that I require my ego to be stroked by being told that I am the good guy is... whatever.

Also telling me that I am participating in a witch hunt is as insulting as all fuck. Stop attacking me Dale. There's no reason for it. You are getting hostile with me without cause. I am not being hostile toward you and have expressed my desire to be convinced.

Where's the police report? I'm not gonna stop asking until information is provided or people start admitting that she never filed one.