Unofficial History of Drama in the Free State

[ForumTroll]

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[John Shaw]

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What? I'm just pointing out shit that people need to be prepared for.

[Ecolitan]

Yep.  In the wild west there was/is I dunno case law involving 'fighting words'. 

Walking up to someone and declaring loudly that you fucked their mother is, in our culture, an invitation to engage in a violent altercation.  What they are doing is not quite that provocative but they're on the right track.

[John Shaw]

Yep.  In the wild west there was/is I dunno case law involving 'fighting words'. 

Walking up to someone and declaring loudly that you fucked their mother is, in our culture, an invitation to engage in a violent altercation.  What they are doing is not quite that provocative but they're on the right track.

Hey, I'm not supporting that shit, I'm just saying it's gonna happen at some point.

[Ecolitan]

me too

[ForumTroll]

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What? I'm just pointing out shit that people need to be prepared for.

If there is no one to stand up to it, then there is no point thinking about a free society...is there?

Basically I see a bunch of people in this thread who are WAITING for people en masse to start resisting government violence...and bitching about it when they actually do in such minor fucking ways.

It makes my brain hurt.

[ForumTroll]

me too

"As far as initiating force on them...  I'm not entirely opposed to it"

Right.

[Ecolitan]

yep, meant that literally

not entirely opposed =/= for it

[ForumTroll]

Whatever makes you feel better about yourself.

[John Shaw]

If there is no one to stand up to it, then there is no point thinking about a free society...is there?

Well I'm not against standing up to it. That's the second time, however, that you've suggested that I've sold out because I'm not interested in doing the same thing someone else is interested in doing. I've also clearly pointed out what I think will work, and even said in that very post that everyone will ignore the thing I suggested, and everyone did. So I've said:

1. This isn't my idea of a good time.
2. Here's what I think is a good alternative.

People should do exactly what they think will work.

Basically I see a bunch of people in this thread who are WAITING for people en masse to start resisting government violence...and bitching about it when they actually do in such minor fucking ways.

It makes my brain hurt.

Have you asked them what they are doing, rather than assume it is "Nothing"? I mean, you may be totally right in a lot of cases. I'm not arguing that. There's a world full of complaints and a pocket full of action. I get that, but not everyone is like that, you know?

[John Shaw]

Clarification:

I said this:
http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?topic=33556.msg597947#msg597947

I later said this:
http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?topic=33556.msg597978#msg597978


It was not all in the same post. Sorry.

[ForumTroll]

That's the second time, however, that you've suggested that I've sold out because I'm not interested in doing the same thing someone else is interested in doing.

I'm not suggesting you've sold out. You've stated your opinion...but you keep doing it over and over again in what I perceive in a "you people are being silly, stop it and keep debating the internet instead" kind of way.

[Cognitive Dissident]

As I said a few weeks ago--people in New Hampshire better get their shit together and recognize that the shit they don't like other activists doing is the kinda shit that's gonna happen in a free society.  As for me, I'm good with it.  I can recognize and appreciate the benefits of both, and I think the losers who are going to take a collectivist view of the "wrong" activism practiced by others are going to be contemporary Don Quijotes--ironically, for want of support from other Don Quijotes.

I agree this is the sort of shit that would happen in a free society but we are missing a very important counter weight for stupid behavior. That being things like egging the offenders homes to show them what they are doing is not appreciated. No collectivist thinking here, just taking on the individual responsibility, in a non violent manner, to educate the young'ns that unacceptable behavior has consequences.

That would be a property violation, and inappropriate.

[John Shaw]

That's the second time, however, that you've suggested that I've sold out because I'm not interested in doing the same thing someone else is interested in doing.

I'm not suggesting you've sold out. You've stated your opinion...but you keep doing it over and over again in what I perceive in a "you people are being silly, stop it and keep debating the internet instead" kind of way.

I can see how it might look that way. That's not what I've been trying to say, though. So let me clarify -

If you think (Insert a thing here that you want to do) will get you some more freedom, go for it! However, don't fucking try to tell me that the thing I'm doing isn't enough.

Also, I want to make it clear, any idea that anyone comes up with to promote freedom should be picked apart to find every possible drawback, so that people can make an informed choice on what they want to do. Cost/Benefit.

In the spirit of that, I'm now going to point out the drawbacks on MY point of view.

1. I'll probably never get to see a free world. (I don't believe "Liberty in our lifetime" is gonna happen.) Entertaining that thought is really fucking depressing.
2. People may just as well ignore the argument from morality. I know people on my own side, who do.
3. We might be wrong about human nature, and children, even raised by what I consider to be the most moral methods, may end up a bunch of savage ingrate statists anyway. (Unlikely, but we don't have a huge data set. We're just kinda starting that experiment.)
4. To some people it looks like people like me aren't doing shit, apart from talking.

Now, I have arguments as to why I still think I'm right, but there, I've given myself the same treatment now.

[davann]

As I said a few weeks ago--people in New Hampshire better get their shit together and recognize that the shit they don't like other activists doing is the kinda shit that's gonna happen in a free society.  As for me, I'm good with it.  I can recognize and appreciate the benefits of both, and I think the losers who are going to take a collectivist view of the "wrong" activism practiced by others are going to be contemporary Don Quijotes--ironically, for want of support from other Don Quijotes.

I agree this is the sort of shit that would happen in a free society but we are missing a very important counter weight for stupid behavior. That being things like egging the offenders homes to show them what they are doing is not appreciated. No collectivist thinking here, just taking on the individual responsibility, in a non violent manner, to educate the young'ns that unacceptable behavior has consequences.

That would be a property violation, and inappropriate.

Eh, it is a minor one compared to the offense. Flashing one’s sagging old lady tits at a bunch of middle school kids is far more a violation of common sense and decency than a couple of eggs. Screaming shit through a bullhorn at a community gathering is just as idiotic. Freedom my ass. This is assholes being assholes. Some day they might grow up but odds of that happening are less if they are not shown antisocial behavior will not be tolerated. One would think by 12 years old they would know that but that does not seem to be the case. Who raised these people, wolves?
I am done.