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Author Topic: Why do you continue to pursue the "conpiracy theory" vendetta?  (Read 7221 times)

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CertainQuirk

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Why do you continue to pursue the "conpiracy theory" vendetta?
« on: November 01, 2012, 08:34:40 AM »

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/15/us/secret-army-chemical-tests-did-not-harm-health-report-says.html
http://www.mccaskill.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=1724
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/03/army-secret-chemical-testing-in-st-louis-neighborhoods-during-cold-war-raising/print\
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2002/apr/21/uk.medicalscience

Listening to the FTL AMP pod this morning (Oct 31st show), Nemi begins with a story about the Feds investigating and charging Meridan, MS with a school to prison story. No one questions Nemi's beliefs. No one attacks her personally or the story's credibility.

Then the first caller, Matt from Ohio (if I remember correctly) suggests that chemtrailing could be done easily if the agents were slipped into gasoline. The reponse? Ian personally attacks Matt by asking (paraphrasing) "Why even bother to call in about something you don't believe?" and says to the audience (again, paraphrasing) "At least call about something you believe." To Mark's credit, he slips in a reaffirmation FTL's motto of calling in about anything. However, the damage is done by now. The caller's credibility is in question because he dares to mention chemtrails.

I have to question that unreasonable and condescending reaction. It causes me to doubt the show's integrity and intentions. I've linked 4 source stories here, two quite recent, one of which is from Senator McCaskill's Missouri Senate office.  All reveal unquestionable evidence of chemtrailing. Four links. Proof positive. No argument. In fact, I dare anyone to deny them.

So, if there's a litany of creepy government behaviour (not to mention it being FTL's primary source of bread and butter) why is the response is always the same?  Always, the caller is a kook and there's no proof, etc etc. Hmm.

At this point, chemtrails become secondary to FTL's (Ian's) behaviour. "The Emporer (Ian) has no clothes" seems most fitting, because for all that he and FTL claim to be--rational and fair, etc., this is a glaring prejudice. An apparent vendetta.

Or is it something else? What then? It stirs a great deal of doubt.

What is it Ian? FTL? Read those 4 stories and answer these questions:

1. Are the stories legitimate?
2. Do they describe chemtrailing?

If you answered these with "yes" then:

3. Why do you continue to pursue the "conspiracy theory" vendetta?

If you answered the first 2 questions with "no" then you're full of it and you're dismissed.

Repost on Twitter: @certainquirk
Edit: Emperor is the correct spelling, of course.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 09:13:36 AM by CertainQuirk »
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John Shaw

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Re: Why do you continue to pursue the "conpiracy theory" vendetta?
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2012, 04:34:42 PM »

Probably because the FTL boys would rather not waste their time in a rabbit hole of possible evils when there are demonstrably real evils that deserve more attention.

Who gives a fuck if they're maybe possibly using magical heretofore unknown radio waves to cause a hurricane on the East coast so Obama can look good and win an election when government stooges are beating and killing people in the street?

Who gives a fuck if they're maybe possibly crop dusting people (That's all chemtrails is, you know, it's fucking accusations of crop dusting people.) with various "Chemicals" to control their minds when 90+% of children are in FUCKING GOVERNMENT PROPAGANDA CAMPS EVERY DAY.

They already control the minds of the people.

To quote my own movie - "If they already control everything, then why the elaborate plan to control everything?"

Conspiracy stuff is a time sink and a rabbit hole and a waste of time. That would be my guess.



PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS
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CertainQuirk

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Re: Why do you continue to pursue the "conpiracy theory" vendetta?
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2012, 08:21:35 PM »

Since you're a global moderator, John, you must be qualified to speak and/or act for "the boys."  Perhaps you can share with us the algorithms that determine "demonstrably real evils that deserve more attention," as opposed to other nebulous information that warrants a chiding, scolding, belittling, etc? Is there rabbit-hole depth-o-meter that unwitting conspiracy theorists can check before calling in?

Because it's obvious the links I posted didn't warrant a cursory glance from the staff, let alone the boys, because why? a) they are not 'demonstrable' enough (which you wouldn't know by not reading them) or b) you simply glanced the depth-o-meter, cross referenced the appropriate response and promptly regurgitated it. (Your time must be as valuable as the boys' is).
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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Why do you continue to pursue the "conpiracy theory" vendetta?
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2012, 09:52:22 PM »

You're kidding, right? John nailed it. We find it pretty obvious that the government is demonstrably evil, for those who dare to open their eyes to established realities. It doesn't require conspiracy theories. It's clearly in the bureaucrats' and politicians' interest to abuse the public as they do. What's to stop them?

Over and above the practical matter, people already think libertarians are kooks, and the conspiracy theories (right or wrong, compelling or not, etc.) confirm their beliefs in their minds. They shut down conversation faster than Godwin's law. In fact, it's a pretty similar effect.

The reason your conspiracies aren't interesting to us is we already know the government is evil, and we already have mainstream ways (rather than "kook" ways) to discuss the evil of government with people.

By all means, though, spend your own time and your own efforts and your own reputation on whatever methods you find most effective. Just don't bitch about other people not being interested in riding your bus. It isn't going to work, and it will "annoy the pig." We've heard it before. It's not our thing. We perceive it's not the way to persuade people about liberty. YMMV, so go at it, if you want, for yourself. Hell, maybe start a radio show...except Alex Jones already exists.
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Why do you continue to pursue the "conpiracy theory" vendetta?
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2012, 09:57:40 PM »

Read this post and John's excellent response tonight.  Thanks!
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alaric89

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Re: Why do you continue to pursue the "conpiracy theory" vendetta?
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2012, 03:53:53 AM »

You catch more flies with honey then you do vineger. I don't think it would hurt to treat people who find some conspiracy theory and find out how contemptable the government is with kid gloves. "Maybe they did that, but look right on Youtube for people misusing power right in broad daylight." Or something. If Ian treated every caller with the same respect he gave Sam I don't think anyone would have had their feelings hurt, even though I thought Ian could have mentioned Mr. Shaws point to him. He didn't. Sam is one of the cool kids, don't cha know.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 09:03:33 AM by alaric89 »
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dalebert

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Re: Why do you continue to pursue the "conpiracy theory" vendetta?
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2012, 08:22:45 AM »

The impression is that the conspiracy calls are being dismissed for not being true. They're being dismissed because it doesn't matter if it's true or not. It's one of those things where no amount of investigation matters because it's all stuph that's strictly under wraps by the government. It's like having an audit of the Fed or demanding an investigation of 9/11. Whether the theory is true or not, it's not going to turn up anything because all that shit is so tightly wrapped up. It's such futile squirming and knashing of teeth and they only seem to get any relief by getting others to squirm and knash with them. What does Ian ask them every time? "Let's say it's true. What should you and I do about it?" And you'll hear "Get the message out! Shout it from the rooftops!" In other words, you should squirm and knash with me.

I like the idea of being as tactful as possible, but I've been on the show a number of times when we got calls like that and we said the same thing that I said above over and over and over. It's gets REALLY tedious after a while. Those callers are relentless and insist on trying to turn FTL into just another Alex Jones. Let Alex Jones reach the people who can be reached that way. Let FTL reach the people who are going to immediately change the channel when they hear Alex-types squirming and knashing.

CertainQuirk

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Re: Why do you continue to pursue the "conpiracy theory" vendetta?
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2012, 08:51:15 AM »

The links in the original post are legitimate and disturbing reads. The people who were/are affected by what's described in them are definitely concerned with their outcomes. I believe it's only appropriate that others should be informed about them as well.

Until about 2 years ago, I was guilty of laughing off these stories and the kooks who delivered them, but the evidence has become undeniable. If there's one thing I do not like, it's being wrong, but I especially don't like being wrong when I've been pompous about it.

Maybe a more productive approach to discussions of this nature would be to discontinue the use of such terms as "conspiracy theor[y,ist]" and [chem,con]trail, etc., altogether, and simply address each story or caller on an individual basis. Collective terms always sacrifice the individuals inside them, while they breed prejudice among outsiders.

Anyway, thanks for reading this post on the show. Thanks for affirming the legitimacy of many of these stories. I hope, especially for the benefit of those who are attempting to prove and recoup their losses, that you'll continue to share such stories with the listeners.
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John Shaw

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Re: Why do you continue to pursue the "conpiracy theory" vendetta?
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2012, 03:31:00 PM »

The links in the original post are legitimate and disturbing reads. The people who were/are affected by what's described in them are definitely concerned with their outcomes. I believe it's only appropriate that others should be informed about them as well.

Awesome, let 'em tune into Alex Jones or George Noory or whatever. You're complaining about the demographic a show is aiming for. As I understand it, anyone can call into FTL and say whatever they want. That doesn't mean that Ian and Mark and whoever else have to agree with it and give it serious thought.

Until about 2 years ago, I was guilty of laughing off these stories and the kooks who delivered them, but the evidence has become undeniable. If there's one thing I do not like, it's being wrong, but I especially don't like being wrong when I've been pompous about it.

No evidence is undeniable and no genuinely scientifically minded person would claim an absolute proof. And no one is saying that X is untrue. People are saying that X doesn't fucking matter in light of government murdering people in the streets.

What makes more sense to cover, cops beating on people in broad daylight in front of cameras or spending three hours trying to convince people that government is MAYBE crop dusting people with mind control nanobots/chemicals/devil powder?

Maybe a more productive approach to discussions of this nature would be to discontinue the use of such terms as "conspiracy theor[y,ist]" and [chem,con]trail, etc., altogether, and simply address each story or caller on an individual basis. Collective terms always sacrifice the individuals inside them, while they breed prejudice among outsiders.

Yeah because not calling a thing what it is and hiding it behind euphemisms is honest.

And where is the line? Should FTL take calls about the reptilians as if they were somehow valid? How about the jews? Should FTL give piles of airtime to people who think the jews run the world? The freemasons? How about the tunnel monks? The people who believe that there are Nazis on the moon?

The worst part is, is that if the conspiracy callers were more interesting and entertaining they'd probably get the air time. Rather than, someone who keeps telling you OH HOW MUCH they've "Studied" a topic and how everyone else should really "Do the homework" and repeating web URLs until they get hung up on.

I'm sure if it actually made for good radio FTL would humor a kook caller.
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CertainQuirk

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Re: Why do you continue to pursue the "conpiracy theory" vendetta?
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2012, 07:15:54 PM »

I think "global troll" would be a better term John. If it's your job to run ppl out of the bbs then you're due a promotion.
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John Shaw

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Re: Why do you continue to pursue the "conpiracy theory" vendetta?
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2012, 10:23:30 PM »

I think "global troll" would be a better term John. If it's your job to run ppl out of the bbs then you're due a promotion.

I was neither hostile, rude, nor trollish. I said very clearly exactly what I meant to say.

You are angry that FTL doesn't cover subjects that you are interested in. You implied that they were censoring people. I responded by suggesting that not being interested in a subject does not equal trying to stomp out people voicing an interest in said subject.

I have no interest in football. If I had a radio show that centered around things that I found interesting, people calling in to tell me about football would be heard out and then get the blow off, because I have nothing to offer the world on the subject of football.

FTL isn't a show about the conspiracy hobby. They take calls about the subject and then respond to the calls as they see fit. If you prefer a show centered on conspiracy, you should go listen to a show about conspiracy like Alex Jones or George Noory, as I mentioned before.

But rather than doing that, people like yourself seem to become fixated on cramming your pet project (Whatever it is, 9/11, reptilians, Jews, Freemasons, etc) down the throats of people who aren't interested in it, and then scream that they are part of the problem or even involved in the conspiracy when pushed back.

So you can get mad and blame me for not sharing your interest or hobby or whatever you want to call it if you find those terms insulting, and you can blame the guys at FTL and say that you're being persecuted or whatever, but what you can't do is get people who aren't interested in what you're talking about to take an interest.

I like Legos. I also like guns. And I occasionally share about those things, and many others. If I came on to the FTL BBS or called into the show every day and ranted about not only how much I liked Legos, but that I insist that other people like legos as well, then people are eventually gonna tell me that I'm fucking annoying.

If you want to go to a place where there isn't more important things going on than conspiracy talk, then go to that place and good luck. If you want to scream and yell about how people are tired of hearing about your pet interest, well, shucks, I dunno what to tell you.

Post all the conspiracy crap you want as long as you don't get into spam territory. Just don't be surprised if people aren't interested or say to you "Who cares?"
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 10:34:35 PM by John Shaw »
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CertainQuirk

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Re: Why do you continue to pursue the "conpiracy theory" vendetta?
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2012, 06:53:56 AM »

Yes, you are right John. When I started listening to FTL sometime in 2007 they were one of the only liberty stores in town. However, times have changed quite a bit since then, and there's a huge variety of non-aggression and free-market (voluntaryism) available to me now. If the services I require are not being met, (and I'm being treated rudely on top of it), I now have the freedom to take my business elsewhere. Consider it done.
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Why do you continue to pursue the "conpiracy theory" vendetta?
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2012, 12:40:02 PM »

aaaand, he's pulled his AMP! 

Cause it's better to financially support all those other principled, liberty-oriented nationally syndicated shows that are going to bring the ideas of liberty to the average person!

Let's name them off so as to better facilitate people sending them money:








...
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thefatalepic

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Re: Why do you continue to pursue the "conpiracy theory" vendetta?
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2012, 03:51:43 PM »

I think some missed the point on why that call was so bad. Not only did he call over something he didn't believe, he wasn't able to entertain the idea, either way. He proposed an idea (putting chemicals in plane fuel that would somehow survive the burning and release via the exhaust), and when he was asked about it he just kept repeating that he wasn't a conspiracy theorist and didn't believe it himself. I would personally have been annoyed and frustrated talking to the guy.

It is possible to entertain a thought without accepting it. He could have said, well maybe there are certain chemicals that would survive combustion, or, I didn't think of it that way, or, ya got me there! But no, it was a radio standstill and the guy just kept saying he didn't believe it himself. This is why the call was dropped, they gave him a chance and there was nothing more.

That being said a lot of the other points here are valid. I personally think FTL is kind to conspiracy theorists because they give them a chance and of course ask them a few questions. The glaring truth here, though, is that the majority of conspiracy theories have no real evidence to back them up.

---

I thought I'd add, I'm an 'average' person and never really thought about these 'ideas of liberty' as much as I do now. I started listening to talk radio about 2 months ago when I found NPR and thought it was great to have a source of news that is not the mainstream media lying to me. I always knew the mainstream media was full of it but could not stand how they were intentionally ignoring Ron Paul. I started sharing posts about what I was hearing such as the drone strikes in Yemen or how our rights are being stripped away - so a friend recommended Free Talk Live to me via Facebook. After a few podcasts I was hooked, I no longer listen to anything but FTL when I am driving. It's been about two weeks since I started listening to FTL and I felt compelled to be an AMPer. Now I'm enjoying ad free podcasts and couldn't be happier. (I didn't mind the catchy Quantum Vibe jingle at first but after listening to it about 15 times it's become a variation of 'Chinese water torture'.)
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John Shaw

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Re: Why do you continue to pursue the "conpiracy theory" vendetta?
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2012, 06:29:07 PM »

aaaand, he's pulled his AMP! 
...

Sorry man. He seemed to have been angry at me or a little blamey at least. I don't see how I was particularly mean. 

The dude must have just been determined to be angry or something.
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