The Free Talk Live BBS
Free Talk Live => The Show => Topic started by: The Anarchia Virus on January 18, 2012, 03:41:08 PM
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Hey, what does everyone here think about the fluoride issue (http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard85.html)? I ask because I kinda get the impression that people in some libertarian/anarchist circles (the FTL crowd for example) want to downplay or completely dismiss the importance of this issue. For instance, I submit show prep like this (http://www.freetalklive.com/content/state_mandated_water_fluoridation_number_1_cause_death), and it gets voted down right away. Whenever the issue is raised on air (which isn't often), Mark & Ian seem to downplay it, adding that (as I recall) the water is not fluoridated in their area. If that's true, then I can understand why it wouldn't be that big on their radar. But I still get the impression that far too many anti-statists out there view the anti-fluoridation (http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard85.html) position as "kooky" or "paranoid." Is that just because windbags like Alex Jones happen to talk about it? Or that the mainstream media makes it sound like a nutty conspiracy theory? Or am I missing something?
I understand that not all amerikans are affected by fluoride, but then again the vast majority are. And it affects them on a daily basis. Contrast that with the TSA's bodyscanning and groping, which is uncontroversially opposed and talked about on a regular basis by people in the freedom movement, even though it (currently) affects far less people than fluoride.
Mind you, I'm not saying we should talk less about the TSA, but I am pointing out the bizarre, disproportionate amount of attention placed on these two issues in terms of the severity and frequency with which they affect people (amerikans at any rate). I am forced by state-induced circumstance to drink tap water every single day, and yet I've never been to an airport in my life. I've got a water filter (discounted thanks to FTL sponsor) which takes out some of these contaminants, but it's too little too late. Most amerikans are literally drinking tap water, contaminated with inorganic, non-biodegradable, poisonous, toxic, hazardous waste (http://www.naturalnews.com/031892_fluoride_corrosive.html) and radioactive substances on a daily basis! Often times exceeding the federal government's own publicly stated (though not mandated) .7 ppm "safety" limit (http://www.naturalnews.com/030952_CDC_fluoride.html) (it's .9 ppm where I live).
It really kind of amazes me that anti-statists are not more vocal in their opposition to such an extreme, outrageous, and positively Orwellian government policy. Maybe it has to do with the fact that the effects of fluoride are not immediately tangible (it's an invisible "soft" kill weapon), unlike the highly physical, sexual molestation carried out by TSA terrorcrats. But still, the very idea of the state contaminating the most vital fluid of Life with toxic waste (which then accumulates in our bodily tissue, and f*cks up our central nervous system) is so unspeakably revolting that it really should be a bigger deal IMO. And unlike most of the monolithic federal government's policies; activists do have an actual fighting chance of stopping (http://www.adn.com/2011/10/30/2146684/palmer-to-stop-adding-fluoride.html) municipal water fluoridation, on a local level -- but only if enough people are educated. Educated, for example, by media programs like Free Talk Live (hint, wink, nudge), which are heard by people in fluoridated as well as unfluoridated communities.
So my questions are:
- Do you consider fluoridation to be an important issue?
- Why or why not?
- Do you think there should be more discussion in the (alternative) media?
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I dont know man, I've been drinking flouridated water most of my life and I still have an unusually high distrust and hatred of government in general.
Im 42 yrs old. Shouldn't I be a mindless pacified sheep that watches Dancing With The Stars and supports the propoganda fed to us by the MSM by now?
EDIT: Holy shit!!! I think I might just have had a revelation!
What if flouride in water acutally makes you MORE rebelious against the PTB and Alex Jones is ACTUALLY a double-agent working for the CIA and is pushing for getting rid of flouride in water, which will make us MORE sedated?
FUCK!!
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I don't think anyone who takes the issue seriously is suggesting that fluoride is literally supposed to turn the masses into mindless, brainwashed zombies. But it does seem clear to me that most people are unnaturally docile, apathetic, "dumb," etc. - myself included. But even if the tangible effects are negligible and debatable, doesn't it just freak you out on a philosophical level? Murray Rothbard has a great piece on the subject here:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard85.html (http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard85.html)
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See edit *
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But it does seem clear to me that most people are unnaturally docile, apathetic, "dumb," etc. - myself included.
Honestly, I think this has more to do with the artificial government safety nets that have come along in the last 60 yrs or so. People no longer think for themselves because they figure "Eh, if I fuck up, the govt will support me until I get my shit together again." So they care less about the decisions they make and take greater, dumber risks than they would if there were no safety net available, thereby "breeding" complacency into us.
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Oh, I think that's part of it for sure, I think it's a lot of things. But I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the toxic and mutagenic food and water - which does after all affect us on a constant physical/chemical level.
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I think the fluoride situation has merit and is a valid concern. And then I read posts like yours misspelling the word "America", and dismiss the article as the ramblings of a conspiracy theorist.
You either provide factual information, or you don't. And the signature misspelling is a sign of those who generally provide skewed data.
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It's not "misspelled," that's actually how Germans spell it, with a 'k'. Seriously, are you joking around, or do you really dismiss people just because they satirize nationalist terms like "American"?
And I don't know what factual info you're looking for exactly. Is it not a commonly known and accepted fact that water fluoridation is real? And did you not see all the links in my post?
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It's not "misspelled," that's actually how Germans spell it, with a 'k'. Seriously, are you joking around, or do you really dismiss people just because they satirize nationalist terms like "American"?
And I don't know what factual info you're looking for exactly. Is it not a commonly known and accepted fact that water fluoridation is real? And did you not see all the links in my post?
Yes, I do. It is indicative of conspiracy theorists. I don't care how Germans spell it. Or Estonians, or Pakistanians, or the fucking moon people.
In any case, I already know about my local water. I've walked the source site, and researched the company. There is no fluoride in mine.
Have a nice day.
(BTW, you're not German. You're from Iowa)
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My maternal grandparents are German and I took German in college - I reckon that's close enough. Honestly though, I didn't expect to offend anyone here of all places with an anti-American word pun. This isn't FoxNews.com is it? I didn't know this made me a "conspiracy theorist" (a term which seems loaded and judgmental in it's own right). I guess people like Tom Woods, Marc Stevens, Lew Rockwell, ad infinitum are kooky conspiracy theorists too because they "misspell" words on purpose...
:roll:
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OMZG F in the HTOO ()H! In such a low concentration that it doesn't really effect the pH of the water! OMG! It kills organisms in the central water supply! Buy seventeen quadruple chained Berkey wadda philtarzz in a l00p and smoke viagra out of a crack pipe or you won't be able to have sex! THURZ CHIPZ IN MAH PILLz and black hopter copters and genetically modified food is designed to turn your babies into zombie slaves of the police department!
Seriously...
It doesn't make a difference, except it will help keep the water free of infectious bacterial growth in sections of the pipe that remain still for long periods of time. It might even help improve your teeth enamel's protective qualities. But it's not gonna do anything else.
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BLACK HELICOPTERS FOREVAH!!!!!!
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OMZG F in the HTOO ()H! In such a low concentration that it doesn't really effect the pH of the water! OMG! It kills organisms in the central water supply! Buy seventeen quadruple chained Berkey wadda philtarzz in a l00p and smoke viagra out of a crack pipe or you won't be able to have sex! THURZ CHIPZ IN MAH PILLz and black hopter copters and genetically modified food is designed to turn your babies into zombie slaves of the police department!
Seriously...
It doesn't make a difference, except it will help keep the water free of infectious bacterial growth in sections of the pipe that remain still for long periods of time. It might even help improve your teeth enamel's protective qualities. But it's not gonna do anything else.
OOORRR it might fuck my teeth up and cause dental/skeletal fluorosis, hypothyroidism, etc. Undiluted hydrofluorosilicic acid literally eats through concrete, but I guess that's no big deal because the loving government dilutes it with enough water to the point where cement-eating acid magically becomes healthy. Except - wait a minute - even if that were true, the government is admitting that anything above .7ppm is bad for you, and gosh, what do ya know, lot's of places fluoridate above the .7ppm limit! Son of a bitch, I guess these nutball "conspiracy theorists" have a legitimate point after all. Sodium/silicone-based fluoride consumption really is a danger to human health.
Of course, even if it were mother's milk being added to the water supply, isn't it kind of unethical and antithetical to the voluntaryist principle of non-aggression to be forcing people to add shit to their water that they may or may not want; shit that they're forced to pay for (taxes); and shit that will definitely be mostly wasted (on showers, dishes, etc.), and might still physically harm individuals due to their unique physiology which bureaucrats actually aren't aware of? Isn't it just a little bit evil to force a substance down someone's throat, healthiness be damned?
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I agree that Mark, Ian, and most people here are afraid to discuss any type of conspiracy theory. I think that they don't want to be viewed as "crazy" or something. They once had Adam from Adam versus the Man and he did a good job pointing out their unwillingness to deal with some of those issues.
I've never really thought about the fluoride thing and I don't know how we could ever tell that people are more docile now because of fluoride. Are there studies that show significant differences between similar counties/cities where one uses fluoride and the other doesn't? Wouldn't all of the filtration companies be screaming about this so that more people would buy their products?
PS Don't use a water filter to remove stuff from your water....use a reverse osmosis system. Filters won't take out the dissolved solids, while RO systems do. If you're starting at 700ppm, it will bring it down to about 10ppm, which is almost pure water and you can get 4-5 stage systems for less than $150.
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...MIGHT wanna check your local water companies website and see if they fluoridate their water. Its pretty easy to do with a little Googling.
Interesting fact - not everyone who is on "city water" has fluoridated water.
They are required to report it. And since a lot of busybodies routinely send off samples to be independently verified, their reports can typically be believed. Thats one of the nice things about living in 'amerika', we have "science", and people who are capable of performing it.
In fact, its so easy to test water, you'd have to be an idiot to have trouble finding a reputable water-testing place -- since it's a requirement of drilling a well.
Moreover, the question has been raised, regarding a statistical cross-section of the psychology of fluoridated citizens versus non-fluoridated citizens.
The answer is, people who own wells, or are on a small-time rural system (like me).. Which is pretty fucking common.
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I've never really thought about the fluoride thing and I don't know how we could ever tell that people are more docile now because of fluoride. Are there studies that show significant differences between similar counties/cities where one uses fluoride and the other doesn't?
I'm not an expert on the science of this stuff, and even if I was, I don't think the precise physical and behavioral effects are known at this point. But that hardly counts in favor of the pro-fluoride crowd. Inconclusive data is all the more reason to avoid consumption, not mandate it.
This is all digression though -- it's already been openly admitted by the very bureaucracy pushing water fluoridation, the HHS, that the science is nebulous, fluoride poisoning is a reality, and the System was wrong in past recommended concentration levels. This is open duplicity. No "conspiracy theory" necessary.
AND AGAIN - the simple fact that state-mandated water fluoridation violates the non-aggression principle is the only reason we actually need to oppose the practice.
But the (limited) science - the reality that, yes, it is somewhat harmful - makes it a notable priority IMHO. It's obviously not the top priority, or more important than the war(s), economic crisis, etc. -- but it is important. Certainly more than Ron Paul....
...MIGHT wanna check your local water companies website and see if they fluoridate their water. Its pretty easy to do with a little Googling.
Interesting fact - not everyone who is on "city water" has fluoridated water.
They are required to report it. And since a lot of busybodies routinely send off samples to be independently verified, their reports can typically be believed. Thats one of the nice things about living in 'amerika', we have "science", and people who are capable of performing it.
In fact, its so easy to test water, you'd have to be an idiot to have trouble finding a reputable water-testing place -- since it's a requirement of drilling a well.
Moreover, the question has been raised, regarding a statistical cross-section of the psychology of fluoridated citizens versus non-fluoridated citizens.
The answer is, people who own wells, or are on a small-time rural system (like me).. Which is pretty fucking common.
I get it. You don't drink fluoridated water so you don't have to worry about it. Congratulations. Doesn't mean you have to belittle the issue in general. I have checked with my local water plant, and the lady there acknowledged that they fluoridate above the "safe" limit, and the water tested positive for uranium as well. She told me that she is personally against adding the fluoride chemical, but bureaucratic red tape basically prevents them from making any changes without approval from the proper authorities, and I guess they have to wait until the next inspection (which is summertime I believe) for that to possibly happen...
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I've never really thought about the fluoride thing and I don't know how we could ever tell that people are more docile now because of fluoride. Are there studies that show significant differences between similar counties/cities where one uses fluoride and the other doesn't?
I'm not an expert on the science of this stuff, and even if I was, I don't think the precise physical and behavioral effects are known at this point. But that hardly counts in favor of the pro-fluoride crowd. Inconclusive data is all the more reason to avoid consumption, not mandate it.
This is all digression though -- it's already been openly admitted by the very bureaucracy pushing water fluoridation, the HHS, that the science is nebulous, fluoride poisoning is a reality, and the System was wrong in past recommended concentration levels. This is open duplicity. No "conspiracy theory" necessary.
AND AGAIN - the simple fact that state-mandated water fluoridation violates the non-aggression principle is the only reason we actually need to oppose the practice.
But the (limited) science - the reality that, yes, it is somewhat harmful - makes it a notable priority IMHO. It's obviously not the top priority, or more important than the war(s), economic crisis, etc. -- but it is important. Certainly more than Ron Paul....
...MIGHT wanna check your local water companies website and see if they fluoridate their water. Its pretty easy to do with a little Googling.
Interesting fact - not everyone who is on "city water" has fluoridated water.
They are required to report it. And since a lot of busybodies routinely send off samples to be independently verified, their reports can typically be believed. Thats one of the nice things about living in 'amerika', we have "science", and people who are capable of performing it.
In fact, its so easy to test water, you'd have to be an idiot to have trouble finding a reputable water-testing place -- since it's a requirement of drilling a well.
Moreover, the question has been raised, regarding a statistical cross-section of the psychology of fluoridated citizens versus non-fluoridated citizens.
The answer is, people who own wells, or are on a small-time rural system (like me).. Which is pretty fucking common.
I get it. You don't drink fluoridated water so you don't have to worry about it. Congratulations. Doesn't mean you have to belittle the issue in general. I have checked with my local water plant, and the lady there acknowledged that they fluoridate above the "safe" limit, and the water tested positive for uranium as well. She told me that she is personally against adding the fluoride chemical, but bureaucratic red tape basically prevents them from making any changes without approval from the proper authorities, and I guess they have to wait until the next inspection (which is summertime I believe) for that to possibly happen...
I've forgotten more about utility companies than you'll learn in a hundred lifetimes.
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If you want to know what is in the tap water, find the Annual Drinking Water Quality Report for your water district. It is a requirement of the Safe Drinking Water Act. When I was living in Houston they sent it to me every year.
This place has a list of 4,185 cities/counties poisoning residents with fluoride:
http://www.just-think-it.com/the-f-db.htm (http://www.just-think-it.com/the-f-db.htm)
"Two-thirds of US public drinking water is fluoridated.
43 of the top 50 U.S. cities (by population) are fluoridated. (view the list)
About 330 million people in the world drink artificially fluoridated water. 200 million live in the U.S., 50 million in Brazil (33% of pop.), 40 million in the Soviet Union (15% of pop.), 9% of the U.K.'s pop. 66% of Australia's and New Zealand's, and 50% of Canada's. (source)"
If you're starting at 700ppm
700ppm...wtf?
s. (source)
lol.
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If you're starting at 700ppm
700ppm...wtf?
My water is 160ppm out of the tap. My old house was 300ppm. And my friend's water is 1000ppm. These are all TDS, not just fluoride.
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Here in Manchester, the city water is around 12ppm TDS. Stinks like chloramines, though.
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I only drink filtered water to avoid all they crap that ends up in tap water, or I just drink straight grain alcohol.
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I'm with Beetlejuice on this one.
He doesn't like flouride either.
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp71/quickmike1969_photo/24mi0lh.jpg)