The Race Show 10.5.09

[Rillion]

No, I'm not a bigot.  I have tolerance towards all beliefs

I think you mean "tolerant."  And if you're tolerant of the belief that (for example) black people are evil and should all die, then you are an asshole. So your choice, basically. 

[ChristianAnarchist]

No, I'm not a bigot.  I have tolerance towards all beliefs

I think you mean "tolerant."  And if you're tolerant of the belief that (for example) black people are evil and should all die, then you are an asshole. So your choice, basically. 

Yes, I'm "tolerant" of someone who holds that belief.  I'm even tolerant of someone who holds the belief that all white people are evil and should all die.  I'm not tolerant of anyone attempting to carry out such action, however...

Nice try though...

[Rillion]

Yes, I'm "tolerant" of someone who holds that belief.  I'm even tolerant of someone who holds the belief that all white people are evil and should all die.  I'm not tolerant of anyone attempting to carry out such action, however...

By "tolerant" I mean being willing to put up with a belief and making no effort against it.  If someone at a party says something racist and you defend it, I'd qualify that as being tolerant of it.  Decent people should not be tolerant of abhorrent beliefs.  And beliefs, notably, should be distinguished from the people who hold them. 

[ChristianAnarchist]

Yes, I'm "tolerant" of someone who holds that belief.  I'm even tolerant of someone who holds the belief that all white people are evil and should all die.  I'm not tolerant of anyone attempting to carry out such action, however...

By "tolerant" I mean being willing to put up with a belief and making no effort against it.  If someone at a party says something racist and you defend it, I'd qualify that as being tolerant of it.  Decent people should not be tolerant of abhorrent beliefs.  And beliefs, notably, should be distinguished from the people who hold them. 

Do you just make up these definitions as you go along?  If someone says something racist and I "defend" it, I am "supportive" of that position, not "tolerant" of it...

Also, I am "tolerant" of the person who holds abhorrent beliefs, not "tolerant" of the beliefs.  (The problem with free education is they don't teach one to follow a sentence anymore).

[Rillion]

If someone says something racist and I "defend" it, I am "supportive" of that position, not "tolerant" of it...

True.  Omit the statement about the party from my last post; I misspoke. 

I don't think you should be tolerant of racist beliefs.  I think if someone says something racist in your presence, you should call them on it.  If they refuse to retract the statements, you should be intolerant of them.  Not punch them or anything, of course, but either tell them to leave or leave yourself. 

[hellbilly]

If someone says something racist and I "defend" it, I am "supportive" of that position, not "tolerant" of it...

True.  Omit the statement about the party from my last post; I misspoke. 

I don't think you should be tolerant of racist beliefs.  I think if someone says something racist in your presence, you should call them on it.  If they refuse to retract the statements, you should be intolerant of them.  Not punch them or anything, of course, but either tell them to leave or leave yourself. 

Nah.. I don't think that is good form at all. Can you imagine having that reaction toward any other topic you may disagree with someone about? Nothing but arguments and people fleeing the room.. sounds like a very closed approach with a slim chance of any resolution.

Why not talk to the individual? Find out why they think the way they do, and then you can poke holes in their theory.

[Rillion]

Nah.. I don't think that is good form at all. Can you imagine having that reaction toward any other topic you may disagree with someone about? Nothing but arguments and people fleeing the room.. sounds like a very closed approach with a slim chance of any resolution.

Why not talk to the individual? Find out why they think the way they do, and then you can poke holes in their theory.

It depends on the individual in question.   If it was somebody who is otherwise rational and reasonably intelligent, I would do that.  If it's just some moron, not going to bother. 

It's my experience, however, that bigots rarely have "theories."  People who think about things hard enough to have theories don't generally become bigots in the first place. 

[ChristianAnarchist]

If someone says something racist and I "defend" it, I am "supportive" of that position, not "tolerant" of it...

True.  Omit the statement about the party from my last post; I misspoke. 

I don't think you should be tolerant of racist beliefs...

I am "tolerant" of "racists", not racist beliefs (although I believe we are all "racist" to some extent - even you).  I even hold the belief that I may very well be wrong about any one of the positions I hold.  I do not believe I am wrong, however, or I would change my positions.  Of course you also do not believe you are wrong, or you would change your positions.  It's only natural that everyone believes they are correct.  If they thought they were incorrect, they would of course change their positions (who would be so unusual to continue to hold a position they believe to be incorrect - oh, except for politicians I suppose)...

[anarchir]

Today while I was at work I heard a customer yell from the bar at a TV, "turn that god damn communist kids movie off! Put something good on! ESPN ESPN!!."

I was a worker, he was a drunken patron. What course of action should I have taken?

Oh yeah, and the channel that moments earlier was playing a football game was starting to play "National Treasure."  (I'm not sure where the "god damn communist" come into play)

[Rillion]

I am "tolerant" of "racists", not racist beliefs (although I believe we are all "racist" to some extent - even you).  I even hold the belief that I may very well be wrong about any one of the positions I hold.  I do not believe I am wrong, however, or I would change my positions.  Of course you also do not believe you are wrong, or you would change your positions.  It's only natural that everyone believes they are correct.  If they thought they were incorrect, they would of course change their positions (who would be so unusual to continue to hold a position they believe to be incorrect - oh, except for politicians I suppose)...

Of course, which is basically what I said in my last post.  Reasonable people are rarely bigots to begin with, but if they are  bigots, then they will change their minds upon being confronted with the error of their thinking, thus becoming ex-bigots.  If upon being confronted with such, they refuse to become ex-bigots....fuck 'em.