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Branlin

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Sat. night, caller "Shadow" on the murder of Iraqis . . .
« on: September 03, 2011, 08:03:46 PM »

and the follow-up calls:

Mark, you kept dancing around the larger point, but never made it.

Armed Americans on Iraqi soil are TRESPASSERS. Nobody invited them there.

Even if these kids/women did set booby traps or whatever, they -- like all human beings -- have the natural right to defend their homes and community from foreign invaders. Even the stupid U.N. recognizes this right.

All the points made by "Shadow" are irrelevant.
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Sat. night, caller "Shadow" on the murder of Iraqis . . .
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2011, 01:01:34 AM »

What?

So you're saying that someone deserves to get shot at because they decide to dress up in a mottled green outfit and carry a gun down public roads?  I don't think so.
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"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
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Branlin

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Re: Sat. night, caller "Shadow" on the murder of Iraqis . . .
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2011, 02:15:31 AM »

What?

So you're saying that someone deserves to get shot at because they decide to dress up in a mottled green outfit and carry a gun down public roads?  I don't think so.

What?

So you're saying that American soldiers can go anywhere in the world they feel like, uninvited, do whatever they want, and the native peoples don't have a natural right to resist?

I don't think so.
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Sat. night, caller "Shadow" on the murder of Iraqis . . .
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2011, 06:06:07 AM »

What?

So you're saying that someone deserves to get shot at because they decide to dress up in a mottled green outfit and carry a gun down public roads?  I don't think so.

What?

So you're saying that American soldiers can go anywhere in the world they feel like, uninvited, do whatever they want, and the native peoples don't have a natural right to resist?

I don't think so.
I am saying that individuals have a natural right to walk around in a mottled green outfit while carrying a rifle.
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"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

alaric89

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Re: Sat. night, caller "Shadow" on the murder of Iraqis . . .
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2011, 06:07:45 AM »

I believe that citizens have the right to kill soldiers of a invading force, but I haven't listened to the podcast yet.
In Norway the only time tested WW2 "heroes" are the people who resisted, these include human traffickers (Jews and others to Sweden) and saboteurs.
The King who lived in exile and criticised the Nazi puppet government (and called for resistance) is also admired.
The people who helped the Nazis round up and then load the kids on the trains- not so much.
I am sorry, but the USA is on the wrong side of history right now. We are the badguys.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EWifC6Ruas[/youtube]
« Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 09:23:18 AM by alaric89 »
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Branlin

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Re: Sat. night, caller "Shadow" on the murder of Iraqis . . .
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2011, 08:32:20 AM »

What?

So you're saying that someone deserves to get shot at because they decide to dress up in a mottled green outfit and carry a gun down public roads?  I don't think so.

What?

So you're saying that American soldiers can go anywhere in the world they feel like, uninvited, do whatever they want, and the native peoples don't have a natural right to resist?

I don't think so.
I am saying that individuals have a natural right to walk around in a mottled green outfit while carrying a rifle.

I'm still not sure if yer serious or just jerking my chain, but nobody has a right to walk around MY property with a rifle unless they're hunting, and they better ask first.

But hostile soldiers from a foreign country? I don't think so.
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Sat. night, caller "Shadow" on the murder of Iraqis . . .
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2011, 08:51:55 AM »

What?

So you're saying that someone deserves to get shot at because they decide to dress up in a mottled green outfit and carry a gun down public roads?  I don't think so.

What?

So you're saying that American soldiers can go anywhere in the world they feel like, uninvited, do whatever they want, and the native peoples don't have a natural right to resist?

I don't think so.
I am saying that individuals have a natural right to walk around in a mottled green outfit while carrying a rifle.

I'm still not sure if yer serious or just jerking my chain, but nobody has a right to walk around MY property with a rifle unless they're hunting, and they better ask first.

But hostile soldiers from a foreign country? I don't think so.
We aren't talking about YOUR property, we are talking about public roads.
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"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Branlin

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Re: Sat. night, caller "Shadow" on the murder of Iraqis . . .
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2011, 10:27:12 AM »

What?

So you're saying that someone deserves to get shot at because they decide to dress up in a mottled green outfit and carry a gun down public roads?  I don't think so.

What?

So you're saying that American soldiers can go anywhere in the world they feel like, uninvited, do whatever they want, and the native peoples don't have a natural right to resist?

I don't think so.
I am saying that individuals have a natural right to walk around in a mottled green outfit while carrying a rifle.

I'm still not sure if yer serious or just jerking my chain, but nobody has a right to walk around MY property with a rifle unless they're hunting, and they better ask first.

But hostile soldiers from a foreign country? I don't think so.
We aren't talking about YOUR property, we are talking about public roads.

Ok, so public roads in Iraq. Did American soldiers get whatever paperwork the Iraq government required for immigrants/visitors in 2003?

Not that I'm aware of, so that makes them trespassers. Armed, uninvited trespassers should always be met with resistance -- and every human being has that inherent right no matter what invisible, political boundaries he happens to live within.

LOL, what's the name of this website again? www.neocon-central.com? Or maybe www.AmericanEmpire.org?

So by your "logic," Chinese, Russian, Indian, whatever soldiers have the right to land on our shores, march down your street, murdering resisters at will?
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Sat. night, caller "Shadow" on the murder of Iraqis . . .
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2011, 11:00:29 AM »

What?

So you're saying that someone deserves to get shot at because they decide to dress up in a mottled green outfit and carry a gun down public roads?  I don't think so.

What?

So you're saying that American soldiers can go anywhere in the world they feel like, uninvited, do whatever they want, and the native peoples don't have a natural right to resist?

I don't think so.
I am saying that individuals have a natural right to walk around in a mottled green outfit while carrying a rifle.

I'm still not sure if yer serious or just jerking my chain, but nobody has a right to walk around MY property with a rifle unless they're hunting, and they better ask first.

But hostile soldiers from a foreign country? I don't think so.
We aren't talking about YOUR property, we are talking about public roads.

Ok, so public roads in Iraq. Did American soldiers get whatever paperwork the Iraq government required for immigrants/visitors in 2003?

Not that I'm aware of, so that makes them trespassers. Armed, uninvited trespassers should always be met with resistance -- and every human being has that inherent right no matter what invisible, political boundaries he happens to live within.

LOL, what's the name of this website again? www.neocon-central.com? Or maybe www.AmericanEmpire.org?

So by your "logic," Chinese, Russian, Indian, whatever soldiers have the right to land on our shores, march down your street, murdering resisters at will?
What kind of libertarian are you that thinks that people should have to have government approved papers to walk around on public roads?  If Chicoms were walking around murdering people then they would deserve a fair trial and the death penalty, but if they were just walking around not doing anything then they obviously wouldn't deserve to die.

What kind of freedom loving person are you that believes its okay to murder people just for wearing green and carrying a rifle in public?  People do that all of the time all over the world, and people don't deserve to get shot at or blown up just because of their clothing choice or the fact that they may be carrying a weapon.
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"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Branlin

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Re: Sat. night, caller "Shadow" on the murder of Iraqis . . .
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2011, 11:29:50 AM »

Sam Gunn wrote:

Quote
What kind of libertarian are you that thinks that people should have to have government approved papers to walk around on public roads?  If Chicoms were walking around murdering people then they would deserve a fair trial and the death penalty, but if they were just walking around not doing anything then they obviously wouldn't deserve to die.

Piss on the gov't papers, but are American soldiers only walking around on Iraq roads? I don't think so, so they're armed trespassers on private property. They are the aggressors and have no moral basis to whine if the native people don't like it and shoot back. This really should not be a difficult concept to grasp.

Quote
What kind of freedom loving person are you that believes its okay to murder people just for wearing green and carrying a rifle in public?  People do that all of the time all over the world, and people don't deserve to get shot at or blown up just because of their clothing choice or the fact that they may be carrying a weapon.

See my answer above.
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Sat. night, caller "Shadow" on the murder of Iraqis . . .
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2011, 11:54:25 AM »

Sam Gunn wrote:

Quote
What kind of libertarian are you that thinks that people should have to have government approved papers to walk around on public roads?  If Chicoms were walking around murdering people then they would deserve a fair trial and the death penalty, but if they were just walking around not doing anything then they obviously wouldn't deserve to die.

Piss on the gov't papers, but are American soldiers only walking around on Iraq roads? I don't think so, so they're armed trespassers on private property. They are the aggressors and have no moral basis to whine if the native people don't like it and shoot back. This really should not be a difficult concept to grasp.

Quote
What kind of freedom loving person are you that believes its okay to murder people just for wearing green and carrying a rifle in public?  People do that all of the time all over the world, and people don't deserve to get shot at or blown up just because of their clothing choice or the fact that they may be carrying a weapon.

See my answer above.
They are when they are murdered with roadside bombs.  If a soldier commits a war atrocity or murder then they should be tried by military tribunal and hanged.  But most soldiers and military personnel are not committing murder nor are they committing war atrocities.  So no, it is not okay to murder people in uniform.  It's not okay to murder any government bureaucrat who hasn't done something that warrants the death penalty.  What you are saying is that a person would be perfectly justified in bombing a military base or a DMV, and that makes you a sick fuck who needs to speak with a psychiatrist.
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"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

alaric89

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Re: Sat. night, caller "Shadow" on the murder of Iraqis . . .
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2011, 01:28:42 PM »

There is a war. Soldiers are killing civilians every day. Should rebels send a note and a warning every time they are going to take the upper hand?
The soldiers don't. 

LTKoblinsky

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Re: Sat. night, caller "Shadow" on the murder of Iraqis . . .
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2011, 08:53:26 PM »

Quote
If a soldier commits a war atrocity or murder then they should be tried by military tribunal and hanged.  But most soldiers and military personnel are not committing murder nor are they committing war atrocities.

I didn't hear 100% of the show, but the stuff I heard was outrageous. Let me preface anything I say with two notes:
1) I don't believe American soldiers should be in Iraq or Afghanistan (or anywhere else they are) and I don't believe in preemptive or "American-interest" strikes.
2) I am currently in the National Guard.

I would like to see the original source material Mark was quoting. Anywhere I've been in the military, murdering children is considered sick, just like the civilian world. If any 'soldier' handcuffed/ziptied children (or anyone) and then executed them, he would be tried by military tribunal or local courts for murder.  To pin this type of atrocity on the military in general is wrong and demonizing.

When I combine this with other quotes about aircraft carriers getting what they deserve and other such stuff, I am reminded of another group that gets criticized for a lot of the same behavior: Fundamentalist Christians. They're so obsessed with their tribulations, raptures, and prophecies, that they're watching the middle east with some sick, passive-aggressive bloodlust. They want war in Israel; they want natural disasters; they want death and destruction. I recently a documentary (Waiting for Armaggedon) where an interviewed Christian said he was looking forward to watching the tribulation (AKA 7 years of horror and death on earth) from 'the best seat in the house' (heaven).
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hellbilly

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Re: Sat. night, caller "Shadow" on the murder of Iraqis . . .
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2011, 09:21:36 PM »

I recently a documentary (Waiting for Armaggedon) where an interviewed Christian said he was looking forward to watching the tribulation (AKA 7 years of horror and death on earth) from 'the best seat in the house' (heaven).

Saw that too &thought it was pretty neat.

I don't understand why they're holding back though.. if the believe strongly enough that god gave them that land (I'm skeptical that they do) then why don't they just go all in and start the final war and take the fast route to Heaven Sugarcandy Mountain?
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alaric89

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Re: Sat. night, caller "Shadow" on the murder of Iraqis . . .
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2011, 07:37:59 AM »

Heard the podcast. To bad. I used to respect Shadow.
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