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Author Topic: Religion = Horseshit  (Read 28887 times)

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Pvincent87

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Re: Religion = Horseshit
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2009, 01:35:24 PM »

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Regardless, in the end, it is actually quite logical to conclude that some type of higher power exists, given the totally bizarre nature of this existence, and how the totality of this existence somehow manages itself in a way that a human can identify with.

This is not an argument. All you have achieved from this is 1. you have made a claim 2. you have stated your opinion about the "totality of existence" and then offered an opinion on it. Nowhere did you sufficiently back up your claim.

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As we attempt to manage our lives, the universe manages itself.
You have no proof of this. How does the universe manage itself? Please, explain.

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The evidence of management on a gigantic level should excite individuals to study further, instead of abusing logic and language in order to try to make people feel stupid for exploring these matters, which is what you atheists love to do.

You have offered no evidence of a deity. You haven't really even offered a coherent argument. You have accused atheists of trying to make you feel stupid. Congratulations.
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Richard Garner

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Re: Religion = Horseshit
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2009, 02:01:21 PM »

Regardless, in the end, it is actually quite logical to conclude that some type of higher power exists, given the totally bizarre nature of this existence

How so? And wouldn't the existence of God be an even more bizarre addition to this?

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and how the totality of this existence somehow manages itself in a way that a human can identify with.

It doesn't manage itself. The is no ecological equilibrium to unbalance. At best there are multiple equilibria.

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As we attempt to manage our lives, the universe manages itself.

Does it?

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The evidence of management

Such as...?

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on a gigantic level should excite individuals to study further,

Oh, the unknown is something scientists and researches relish: They say "I have no explaination for X? How could it possibly be? This requires further study." The Religious person, on the other hand, says "I have no explaination for X? How could it possibly be? It must be God. Explaination found, no further study necessary."

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instead of abusing logic and language in order to try to make people feel stupid for exploring these matters, which is what you atheists love to do.

Errrr... I'm not even sure what this is refering to.
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Pvincent87

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Re: Religion = Horseshit
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2009, 02:09:39 PM »

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The evidence of management on a gigantic level should excite individuals to study further, instead of abusing logic and language in order to try to make people feel stupid for exploring these matters, which is what you atheists love to do.

I cannot stop thinking about this sentence. You are claiming that atheists abuse logic and language in order to make people feel stupid? All this after failing to counter or even address opposing arguments? Then you top it all with a bigoted insult?

If God made you in his image, I think God is an incoherent bigot.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 02:12:20 PM by Pvincent87 »
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Pvincent87

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Re: Religion = Horseshit
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2009, 02:14:02 PM »

That is not to say that all Christians or deists are bigots because I know open-minded and intelligent theists.
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Dylboz

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Re: Religion = Horseshit
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2009, 04:21:28 PM »

No, religion is not horseshit. And the reason why so many anarchists are atheists is because they are impious people who don't want to recognize any authority higher than themselves.

You, Luke, are horseshit. And there IS no authority higher than myself. You can tell me all about it, but no "god" has ever talked to me, or established the origin of "his" authority. All I've ever heard is a bunch of deluded people prattle on about their specific beliefs, and nothing more. The same goes for your state-worshipping idolatry. You bow and scrape before state issued costume wearers as if their little polyester uniforms and bits of costume jewelry really meant something, when in truth, the only thing they have that has any real power is their gun. All the horseshit you spew wont change the FACT that government power rests solely upon its agent's recourse to violence to back up their claims to "authority."
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 04:34:43 PM by Dylboz »
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Re: Religion = Horseshit
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2009, 04:35:22 PM »


You can tell me all about it, but no "god" has ever talked to me, or established the origin of "his" authority. All I've ever heard is a bunch of deluded people prattle on about their specific beliefs, and nothing more. The same goes for your state-worshipping idolatry. You bow and scrape before a state issued costume wearer as if their little polyester uniforms and bits of costume jewelry really meant something, when in truth, the only thing they have that has any real power is their gun.

I'm quoting you.
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mikehz

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Re: Religion = Horseshit
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2009, 04:46:28 PM »

Also I'd say the problem of evil isn't an effective argument. It doesn't address the core issue of lack of evidence for gods, and it is still equally likely for there to be any type of god, heavily conflicted or not. Sure the problem of evil means that if there is a god he's certainly a dick, but its certainly not a proof against god.

It is not merely evidence but proof against the Christian  conception of God as all-powerful and all-good.

Again, since there is no way of perceiving God then there is no reason for assuming the existence of a god over nothingness.
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fatcat

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Re: Religion = Horseshit
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2009, 06:12:47 PM »

Also I'd say the problem of evil isn't an effective argument. It doesn't address the core issue of lack of evidence for gods, and it is still equally likely for there to be any type of god, heavily conflicted or not. Sure the problem of evil means that if there is a god he's certainly a dick, but its certainly not a proof against god.

It is not merely evidence but proof against the Christian  conception of God as all-powerful and all-good.

Again, since there is no way of perceiving God then there is no reason for assuming the existence of a god over nothingness.

Against the Christian god, then its more effective, but you still leave yourself open to bullshit arguments that distract from the important stuff.

take "all-powerful", for example, theres the idea of god only being powerful as logically possible, so therefore it can't do impossible things (like make a rock so heavy he can't move it), even though thats the definition of a miricale.

Also bullshit excuses about "free will" and relativistic concepts of good. (i.e if god didn't let people suffer it would be worse overall)

Trying to "disprove" the existence of gods, no matter how compelling the arguments, is a sure way to piss off religious types and make them not listen. There is already so much bullshit about "arrogant" atheists.

You can't disprove there aren't thousands of other universes apart from this one, neither can you prove it. So the default position should be non-belief, not belief or dis-belief, although obviously dis-belief is more reasonable.

The problem with religion is that it involves beliefs that don't meet rational standards of evidence, this is why so many religions negate science, or say religion exists outside the "realm of science" (as if such a thing is possible), and its key to bring the argument back to that point rather than get distracted by the fallacies and innacuracies in the particular god theories different people have.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 06:23:09 PM by fatcat »
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mikehz

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Re: Religion = Horseshit
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2009, 08:53:38 PM »

Since there is no definition of "the sublime," then it's no different from saying "the bullshit."
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Pvincent87

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Re: Religion = Horseshit
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2009, 11:03:27 PM »

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I think it is sufficient to observe and conclude that the universe is the manifestation/product of a "higher power", since the universe is without question, much more powerful than anything a human has ever produced.


So you hold the principle that all things which are more powerful than anything a human has ever produced are manifestations of a higher power? Ok, that's interesting. Unfortunately this does not answer any atheist counter-argument which has been presented to you.

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Something else that has been proven is the limitations of logic.
Ok, *reads on*

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Something else that has been proven is the limitations of logic. The Indian Buddhist philosopher Nagarjuna proved the limits of logic in a work known in the west as Fundamentals on The Middle Way:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C5%ABlamadhyamakak%C4%81rik%C4%81

The text incorporates all the rules of logic known to him, and then he turns everything upside down and in many directions in order to prove the limits of logic.

When these limits of logic are acknowledged, you then enter into the realm of The Sublime, and you are now in a much better position to form a stronger relationship with this "Higher Power".
Ok...I'm feeling this man I'm feeling this.

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The Atheists act like children, concerning these "Higher Power" matters, and I'm pretty much not even joking.


Ok, you had me with liking what you were saying with the mystical Buddha stuff, but then you go ahead and spew your bigotry by lumping all atheists into one collective group. Thus far I don't see any semblances of a coherent argument besides what some other superstitious freak thinks about it.

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When children ask stupid questions, they are given a stupid answer, and the atheists are dumb enough to believe that the stupid answer is actually meant to be taken seriously.


This is all bigoted nonsense that does not address any of the counter-arguments levied at you. Can you even comprehend the written word?

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Maybe the OP is right in saying that Religion is boring. However, nothing is stopping the OP from developing a system that he finds compelling.

This is irrelevant. All of it.

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I advise all you atheist geeks and troublemakers on here to approach these matters of a "higher power" from a fresh perspective, that is, pretend that you have never even heard of the bible or Christianity or whatever theories and concepts you guys love to try to poke holes through.
This is all bigoted nonsense.



No where in any of your responses did you even address the questions asked of you. You seem oblivious to criticism and you respond to opposing viewpoints with bigoted ramblings. I think I am now dumber now for actually trying to thoughtfully respond to your posts.



« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 11:08:31 PM by Pvincent87 »
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Dylboz

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Re: Religion = Horseshit
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2009, 11:46:12 PM »

Volcanos are gods! Sacrifice yourselves to appease their anger! Starting with Luke, since he's a virgin, and then Gene, because he's so pious, and finally Richard, since the only way to cure his myriad diseases is to immolate his freaky opera glove wearing ass in a lava pit. Only then will Pelé be satisfied!
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Religion is metaphysical statism. I will be ruled by no man on earth, nor by any god in heaven.

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blackie

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Re: Religion = Horseshit
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2009, 12:12:26 AM »

<----Born to love volcanoes
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Dylboz

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Re: Religion = Horseshit
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2009, 12:29:27 AM »

That's gotta burn!
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Religion is metaphysical statism. I will be ruled by no man on earth, nor by any god in heaven.

Please check out my blog!
Dylboznia

Richard Garner

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Re: Religion = Horseshit
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2009, 06:21:27 AM »

Quote
Regardless, in the end, it is actually quite logical to conclude that some type of higher power exists, given the totally bizarre nature of this existence, and how the totality of this existence somehow manages itself in a way that a human can identify with.

This is not an argument. All you have achieved from this is 1. you have made a claim 2. you have stated your opinion about the "totality of existence" and then offered an opinion on it. Nowhere did you sufficiently back up your claim.

Quote
As we attempt to manage our lives, the universe manages itself.
You have no proof of this. How does the universe manage itself? Please, explain.

Quote
The evidence of management on a gigantic level should excite individuals to study further, instead of abusing logic and language in order to try to make people feel stupid for exploring these matters, which is what you atheists love to do.

You have offered no evidence of a deity. You haven't really even offered a coherent argument. You have accused atheists of trying to make you feel stupid. Congratulations.


I do want to make it clear that I do not "identify" as a "creationist". When the science folk say that religionist type folk should be rejected because they can't prove anything, it's also good to remember that scientists are unable to explain the more serious questions in a satisfactory manner. If a religionist says, "God did it", that does not mean that that is the end of the matter --- it is a fact that Issac Newton thought and wrote more about religious matters then he did about science.

I don't know how you want me to present the "proof" to you, but I think it is sufficient to observe and conclude that the universe is the manifestation/product of a "higher power", since the universe is without question, much more powerful than anything a human has ever produced.

But nobody has claimed a human produced it. And what do you mean when you describe the universe as "powerful"?

Quote
Something else that has been proven is the limitations of logic. The Indian Buddhist philosopher Nagarjuna proved the limits of logic in a work known in the west as Fundamentals on The Middle Way:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C5%ABlamadhyamakak%C4%81rik%C4%81

The text incorporates all the rules of logic known to him, and then he turns everything upside down and in many directions in order to prove the limits of logic.

When these limits of logic are acknowledged, you then enter into the realm of The Sublime, and you are now in a much better position to form a stronger relationship with this "Higher Power".

The Atheists act like children, concerning these "Higher Power" matters, and I'm pretty much not even joking. When children ask stupid questions, they are given a stupid answer, and the atheists are dumb enough to believe that the stupid answer is actually meant to be taken seriously.

Do you have some sort of example to back this up?

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Maybe the OP is right in saying that Religion is boring. However, nothing is stopping the OP from developing a system that he finds compelling. Spirituality must rely on a more creative approach to knowledge, since logic can no longer be relied on. I advise all you atheist geeks and troublemakers on here to approach these matters of a "higher power" from a fresh perspective, that is, pretend that you have never even heard of the bible or Christianity or whatever theories and concepts you guys love to try to poke holes through.

Fine. And... how does the existence of our universe prove that there is a God?
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Re: Religion = Horseshit
« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2009, 07:02:31 AM »

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Fine. And... how does the existence of our universe prove that there is a God?
The fact that it exists at all is evidence that there is a prime mover, a first creator, God.  Doesn't prove theistic beliefs though, but it does prove that something created it it. 
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