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Author Topic: Penn and Teller  (Read 12965 times)

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LordMarius

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Re: Penn and Teller
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2009, 10:34:08 AM »

Yep, there's at least one other here, but I don't recall who it is.  I really enjoy Skeptic's Guide....the only time I don't like it is when they get gung-ho about prosecuting people for publishing pseudoscience.  Follow that line of logic and you end up putting anyone who makes money off lying to people in prison, and I don't want to live in that world.  I get the feeling sometimes that Steve and the bunch wouldn't mind locking up fortune tellers for fraud. 

Yeah, my impression is that most public skeptics are of the more authoritarian persuation. They fall into the special interest trap and are totally blind to every other consideration than promoting science, and more especially their own branch of science, not hesitating to use force against heretics. The Skeptic's Guide is supposed to be totally non-political, but they fail to grasp the fact that promoting the use of force against those whose views one opposes is in fact as political as can be. Anyhow, one of the highlights of my week is the Skeptic's Guide show.

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Rillion

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Re: Penn and Teller
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2009, 10:46:43 AM »

Yep, there's at least one other here, but I don't recall who it is.  I really enjoy Skeptic's Guide....the only time I don't like it is when they get gung-ho about prosecuting people for publishing pseudoscience.  Follow that line of logic and you end up putting anyone who makes money off lying to people in prison, and I don't want to live in that world.  I get the feeling sometimes that Steve and the bunch wouldn't mind locking up fortune tellers for fraud. 

Yeah, my impression is that most public skeptics are of the more authoritarian persuation. They fall into the special interest trap and are totally blind to every other consideration than promoting science, and more especially their own branch of science, not hesitating to use force against heretics. The Skeptic's Guide is supposed to be totally non-political, but they fail to grasp the fact that promoting the use of force against those whose views one opposes is in fact as political as can be. Anyhow, one of the highlights of my week is the Skeptic's Guide show.

Penn and Teller's show Bullshit (don't know if you've seen it) combines skepticism with libertarianism, which I know rankles the kind of skeptics you're talking about.  I have mixed feelings about it.  It's not supposed to be scientifically rigorous, because then not as many people would watch and enjoy it.  But on the other hand, when people disagree with the ideology then they may get caught up with that and then not take in the skepticism.   Still, I know there are a lot of people who got turned on to libertarian in the first place by watching Bullshit.  So I guess people can get their skepticism laden with authoritarianism from Skeptic's Guide, and their libertarian skepticism from Bullshit.   Ideology-free skepticism seems to be difficult to come by, because sooner or later the question of whether science should be funded by the government comes up and everything goes all to hell. 
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LordMarius

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Re: Penn and Teller
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2009, 11:26:16 AM »

Penn and Teller's show Bullshit (don't know if you've seen it) combines skepticism with libertarianism, which I know rankles the kind of skeptics you're talking about.  I have mixed feelings about it.  It's not supposed to be scientifically rigorous, because then not as many people would watch and enjoy it.  But on the other hand, when people disagree with the ideology then they may get caught up with that and then not take in the skepticism.   Still, I know there are a lot of people who got turned on to libertarian in the first place by watching Bullshit.  So I guess people can get their skepticism laden with authoritarianism from Skeptic's Guide, and their libertarian skepticism from Bullshit.   Ideology-free skepticism seems to be difficult to come by, because sooner or later the question of whether science should be funded by the government comes up and everything goes all to hell. 

You can't do anything totally objectively and ideology free. Anyone who claims otherwise is a lying ideologue with an agenda. I'm a huge fan of Bullshit, and love every episode they've made. But I think my absolute favorite is the one about world peace.

Actually, Pen Jillette is one of the reasons that I finally gave up socialism and discovered my liberatarian nature. I discovered his radio show through his skeptic activism, and realized that the cognitive dissonance that had been tormenting me disappeared when I thought about issues while utilizing the non-aggression principle after listening to his show. That together with my constant failure to win discussions with liberty-minded people.

I kinda have some problems with P&T actually disregarding good science in matters like global warming and second hand smoke. It's totally possible to be a libertarian and at the same time acknowledging that the science is not on the side of the deniers of those two issues. 

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mikehz

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Re: Penn and Teller
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2009, 11:53:40 AM »

I'm another fan of "Skeptic's Guide." There are a number of libertarians on their message board. Every now and then, libertarianism comes up. More freedom lovers would be helpful. http://skepchick.org/skepticsguide/
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gibson042

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Re: Penn and Teller
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2009, 01:24:29 PM »

Ah, both a Skeptic's Guide and and FTL listener? Mad props! :P

Yep, there's at least one other here, but I don't recall who it is.

Yo.  On a note especially related to this thread, I really miss Penn Radio.  I believe both of you enjoyed it too?

Quote
I really enjoy Skeptic's Guide....the only time I don't like it is when they get gung-ho about prosecuting people for publishing pseudoscience.  Follow that line of logic and you end up putting anyone who makes money off lying to people in prison, and I don't want to live in that world.  I get the feeling sometimes that Steve and the bunch wouldn't mind locking up fortune tellers for fraud. 

From both that zeal and their insistence on more (tax-derived) science funding, it is clear that the rogues have few issues with supporting force in pursuit of their goals.
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anarchir

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Re: Penn and Teller
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2009, 01:35:54 PM »

Quote
But I think my absolute favorite is the one about world peace.

Actually, Pen Jillette is one of the reasons that I finally gave up socialism and discovered my liberatarian nature.

I was already a free minded person when watching that episode but I had never thought of globalization really in that way before. I was hesitant to agree with them on that issue, but after much thought what they say makes sense.
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Erika

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Re: Penn and Teller
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2009, 03:37:09 PM »

Yep, there's at least one other here, but I don't recall who it is.  I really enjoy Skeptic's Guide....the only time I don't like it is when they get gung-ho about prosecuting people for publishing pseudoscience.  Follow that line of logic and you end up putting anyone who makes money off lying to people in prison, and I don't want to live in that world.  I get the feeling sometimes that Steve and the bunch wouldn't mind locking up fortune tellers for fraud. 

Yeah, my impression is that most public skeptics are of the more authoritarian persuation. They fall into the special interest trap and are totally blind to every other consideration than promoting science, and more especially their own branch of science, not hesitating to use force against heretics. The Skeptic's Guide is supposed to be totally non-political, but they fail to grasp the fact that promoting the use of force against those whose views one opposes is in fact as political as can be. Anyhow, one of the highlights of my week is the Skeptic's Guide show.



yay, more SGU listeners! haha, it's nice not the only one.

yeah, i get extremely frustrated anytime that their authoritarian nature becomes glaringly visible.  they try hard to be non-political, and i've heard Steve recognize that there's a good-sized libertarian streak in the skeptical movement, but it's impossible to divorce your idealogy from everything.  they often fall into the trap of encouraging force against all enemies of science and logic, and that's where they lose me.

but don't get me wrong - on the whole, i LOVE the skeptic's guide.  i get giddy when their weekly episode pops up in my itunes ^_^
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LordMarius

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Re: Penn and Teller
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2009, 03:44:30 PM »

Quote
But I think my absolute favorite is the one about world peace.

Actually, Pen Jillette is one of the reasons that I finally gave up socialism and discovered my liberatarian nature.

I was already a free minded person when watching that episode but I had never thought of globalization really in that way before. I was hesitant to agree with them on that issue, but after much thought what they say makes sense.

Yup, it makes perfect sense. When you in a discussion introduce peace as an argument for free trade you really discover how deep the brainwashing in the schools and media really is. People are taken aback by it because it's something they have never ever heard before.
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Alex Libman

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Re: Penn and Teller
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2009, 04:03:56 PM »

BTW, the rumor mill on Season 7 BS topics (ex) includes: Orgasms, Violent Video Games, Orgasms, Orgasms, Astrology, Orgasms, 2012, Orgasms, Orgasms, Orga...nic Living, Orgasms, Lie Detectors, Orgasms, and Orgasms.
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One two three

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Re: Penn and Teller
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2009, 04:54:31 PM »

I'm just thrilled that they show is still on the air.  The more topics they cover the easier it is to convert folks.
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Scott in Winnipeg

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Re: Penn and Teller
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2009, 06:18:54 PM »

I'm another fan of "Skeptic's Guide." There are a number of libertarians on their message board. Every now and then, libertarianism comes up. More freedom lovers would be helpful. http://skepchick.org/skepticsguide/

I post on there and once had a pretty lengthy discussion with those folks about libertarian ideas.
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castle_ahh

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Re: Penn and Teller
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2009, 06:20:54 PM »

Yep, there's at least one other here, but I don't recall who it is.  I really enjoy Skeptic's Guide....the only time I don't like it is when they get gung-ho about prosecuting people for publishing pseudoscience.  Follow that line of logic and you end up putting anyone who makes money off lying to people in prison, and I don't want to live in that world.  I get the feeling sometimes that Steve and the bunch wouldn't mind locking up fortune tellers for fraud. 

Yeah, my impression is that most public skeptics are of the more authoritarian persuation. They fall into the special interest trap and are totally blind to every other consideration than promoting science, and more especially their own branch of science, not hesitating to use force against heretics. The Skeptic's Guide is supposed to be totally non-political, but they fail to grasp the fact that promoting the use of force against those whose views one opposes is in fact as political as can be. Anyhow, one of the highlights of my week is the Skeptic's Guide show.



yay, more SGU listeners! haha, it's nice not the only one.

yeah, i get extremely frustrated anytime that their authoritarian nature becomes glaringly visible.  they try hard to be non-political, and i've heard Steve recognize that there's a good-sized libertarian streak in the skeptical movement, but it's impossible to divorce your idealogy from everything.  they often fall into the trap of encouraging force against all enemies of science and logic, and that's where they lose me.

but don't get me wrong - on the whole, i LOVE the skeptic's guide.  i get giddy when their weekly episode pops up in my itunes ^_^

from what i have heard, it seems that the skeptoid podcast never really seems to get political, ive never heard him bring up the issues of government sponsored science and punishing those who dabble in quackery, though, i haven't heard all the episodes.
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Scott in Winnipeg

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Re: Penn and Teller
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2009, 06:21:01 PM »

yay, more SGU listeners! haha, it's nice not the only one.

yeah, i get extremely frustrated anytime that their authoritarian nature becomes glaringly visible.  they try hard to be non-political, and i've heard Steve recognize that there's a good-sized libertarian streak in the skeptical movement, but it's impossible to divorce your idealogy from everything.  they often fall into the trap of encouraging force against all enemies of science and logic, and that's where they lose me.

but don't get me wrong - on the whole, i LOVE the skeptic's guide.  i get giddy when their weekly episode pops up in my itunes ^_^

I am an SGU fan as well, been listening for a long time. The only time I recall them having an non-liberty take is on things like outlawing or restricting things like physics and psuedo-science.
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evilhick

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Re: Penn and Teller
« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2009, 02:22:31 PM »

I am a long time listener of SGU and Skeptoid. I have been trying to get all of the Penn Says archives.

I just got back from Atlantic City NJ where I got to see the Penn & Teller show ( fist time back ion the east coast in over 8 years ) . Man they are great !

All during the show. They constantly encourage Libertarian ideas and Skepticism . 

Of course you cant agree 100% with anyone... man that would be a boring person !

Rock On LiberSkeptictarians!
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Alex Libman 14

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Re: Penn and Teller
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2009, 03:46:07 PM »

(Check out my related poll about BS! Season 7 eps.)


[...]  Rock On LiberSkeptictarians!
Indeed.  And screw those "the government must not be questioned" nuts on the JREF forums
« Last Edit: May 24, 2009, 03:48:51 PM by Alex Libman 17 »
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