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Author Topic: Oppinion: spanking children  (Read 32259 times)

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blackie

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Re: Oppinion: spanking children
« Reply #150 on: October 25, 2009, 11:00:10 AM »

I have this to say on spanking:

The ones who never spank are either saints, or they don't have children.




Or, they are just not psychos who use violence against their kids.
Do you consider giving shots and drawing blood from a kid as violence?

I'm pretty sure sticking sharp metal objects into a person is considered initiation of force.


Please tell me you didn't just equate providing medical treatment and hitting children!
Hitting children! I guess it's more fun than trying to be violent against someone who can actually defend themselves. Is this something one can talk about openly in the US? "Hey, I just kicked my kids ass, I'm such a great fucking parent with my medieval parenting techniques  based on using violence against my own kids".
Some medical treatments involve stabbing children!

What sane person would stab their child, or allow someone else to stab their child!
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fatcat

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Re: Oppinion: spanking children
« Reply #151 on: October 26, 2009, 10:09:34 PM »

Please tell me you didn't just equate providing medical treatment and hitting children!
Hitting children! I guess it's more fun than trying to be violent against someone who can actually defend themselves. Is this something one can talk about openly in the US? "Hey, I just kicked my kids ass, I'm such a great fucking parent with my medieval parenting techniques  based on using violence against my own kids".
Some medical treatments involve stabbing children!

What sane person would stab their child, or allow someone else to stab their child!

you know why these things aren't the same, so why are you even bothering?

your whole argument by obfuscation thing is getting pretty tired. Deliberately misconstruing/misstating someones argument so they have to clarify it is not the same thing as debate.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2009, 10:16:04 PM by fatcat »
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blackie

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Re: Oppinion: spanking children
« Reply #152 on: October 26, 2009, 10:22:07 PM »

Please tell me you didn't just equate providing medical treatment and hitting children!
Hitting children! I guess it's more fun than trying to be violent against someone who can actually defend themselves. Is this something one can talk about openly in the US? "Hey, I just kicked my kids ass, I'm such a great fucking parent with my medieval parenting techniques  based on using violence against my own kids".
Some medical treatments involve stabbing children!

What sane person would stab their child, or allow someone else to stab their child!

you know why these things aren't the same so why are you even bothering?
Initiating force or violence is wrong on every issues, every time!
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fatcat

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Re: Oppinion: spanking children
« Reply #153 on: October 26, 2009, 10:46:46 PM »

Please tell me you didn't just equate providing medical treatment and hitting children!
Hitting children! I guess it's more fun than trying to be violent against someone who can actually defend themselves. Is this something one can talk about openly in the US? "Hey, I just kicked my kids ass, I'm such a great fucking parent with my medieval parenting techniques  based on using violence against my own kids".
Some medical treatments involve stabbing children!

What sane person would stab their child, or allow someone else to stab their child!

you know why these things aren't the same so why are you even bothering?
Initiating force or violence is wrong on every issues, every time!

you're doing it again.

The whole point is Marius wouldn't support people using needles as a punishment technique, and you were deliberately conflating the two, as if there was no difference between hitting kids as an obedience technique and using a needle as a transmission vessel for  medical vaccines.

If you take your reducio ad absurdum far enough, than having any sort of surgery to an infant is initiation of force.

Giving drugs to an epileptic or diabetic you found on the street, would be an initiation of force, except it isn't reall. Because although the principle of initiation of force is something to strive towards, you constantly make assumptions about consent in the real world. just like you make an assumption when you walk into a shop, that the shop owner is actually consenting to strangers walking in, and you're not trespassing.

 Of course it would be a fucking thick headed person to ever class hitting a kid for punsihment, and life saving medical treatment as both initiations of force in any practical sense. Not a position anyone in this thread has even come close to making.

And you could probably have a good guess at what Marius' response would be, and that taking his argument to extremes you know the other person won't agree with isn't really useful to provoke any sort of progress or insight in discussion, but maybe just cheap point scoring, or to try and make yourself look smart.
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blackie

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Re: Oppinion: spanking children
« Reply #154 on: October 26, 2009, 11:05:54 PM »

having any sort of surgery to an infant is initiation of force.
Are you saying it isn't?

Quote
Of course it would be a fucking thick headed person to ever class hitting a kid for punsihment, and life saving medical treatment as both initiations of force in any practical sense.
Just because something is a "life saving medical treatment" does not mean it is not the initiation of force. Practical sense has nothing to do with it. Something is the initiation of force, or it is not.

I'm ok with parents initiating force on their kids. How 'bout you?

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blackie

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Re: Oppinion: spanking children
« Reply #155 on: October 27, 2009, 02:18:18 PM »

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galets

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Re: Oppinion: spanking children
« Reply #156 on: October 27, 2009, 11:38:06 PM »

The way I see it the debate is split between people who think spanking is sometimes neccessary, and people who think its always unnecessary.

Then why are you using term "pro-spanking"? It is completely bogus, and absolutely inappropriate here. "Pro-spanking" is someone who advocates regular beatings as a form of parenting. This is absolutely not what's being discussed here, and you just said it.
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freeAgent

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Re: Oppinion: spanking children
« Reply #157 on: October 28, 2009, 08:27:01 AM »

The way I see it the debate is split between people who think spanking is sometimes neccessary, and people who think its always unnecessary.

Then why are you using term "pro-spanking"? It is completely bogus, and absolutely inappropriate here. "Pro-spanking" is someone who advocates regular beatings as a form of parenting. This is absolutely not what's being discussed here, and you just said it.

Similar to anarchists who call minarchists statists ;)
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fatcat

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Re: Oppinion: spanking children
« Reply #158 on: October 28, 2009, 11:23:13 AM »

The way I see it the debate is split between people who think spanking is sometimes neccessary, and people who think its always unnecessary.

Then why are you using term "pro-spanking"? It is completely bogus, and absolutely inappropriate here. "Pro-spanking" is someone who advocates regular beatings as a form of parenting. This is absolutely not what's being discussed here, and you just said it.

If I say pro abortion, and anti abortion, does that mean I'm saying the pro abortion side want to force all pregnant women to have abortions? no.

Don't be so pedantic.

and I'm aware people try to cop out on this with "pro choice", but its inherently.

If I'm pro gay marriage does that mean I want to force all gay people to get married? Nothing I said suggested that I think pro spanking people want to beat their kids non stop, and I'm finding this debate increasingly devoid of any meaningful discussion, and weighed down with a big fuck off bunch of semantics and pedantics.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 11:26:36 AM by fatcat »
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hellbilly

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Re: Oppinion: spanking children
« Reply #159 on: October 28, 2009, 05:49:58 PM »

I think you should be spanked, fatcat.
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BonerJoe

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Re: Oppinion: spanking children
« Reply #160 on: October 28, 2009, 06:00:24 PM »

I think you should be spanked, fatcat.

He'd like it too much.
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Harry Tuttle

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Re: Oppinion: spanking children
« Reply #161 on: October 29, 2009, 05:02:55 PM »

...I'm finding this debate increasingly devoid of any meaningful discussion, and weighed down with a big fuck off bunch of semantics and pedantics.

yep
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hellbilly

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Re: Oppinion: spanking children
« Reply #162 on: October 29, 2009, 05:13:42 PM »

...come on out big boy and bend it over fo' Daddy.. come on fatcat.. come on...
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Give me Liberty or give me Meth!

"We are profoundly dissatisfied with pretty much everything but we canít articulate why, and are unable to offer any viable alternative." - Nathaniel Weiner

Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: Oppinion: spanking children
« Reply #163 on: October 29, 2009, 11:58:01 PM »

...I'm finding this debate increasingly devoid of any meaningful discussion, and weighed down with a big fuck off bunch of semantics and pedantics.

yep

I find irony to be hilarious.
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I am looking for an honest man. -Diogenes The Cynic

Dude, I thought you were a spambot for like a week. You posted like a spambot. You failed the Turing test.

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PDeverit

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Child buttock-battering vs. DISCIPLINE:
« Reply #164 on: November 07, 2009, 01:00:31 PM »

Child buttock-battering vs. DISCIPLINE:

Child buttock-battering for the purpose of gaining compliance is nothing more than an inherited bad habit.

Its a good idea for people to take a look at what they are doing, and learn how to DISCIPLINE instead of hit.

I think the reason why television shows like "Supernanny" and "Dr. Phil" are so popular is because that is precisely what many (not all) people are trying to do.

There are several reasons why child bottom-slapping isn't a good idea. Here are some good, quick reads recommended by professionals:

Plain Talk About Spanking
by Jordan Riak,

The Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children
by Tom Johnson,

NO VITAL ORGANS THERE, So They Say
by Lesli Taylor M.D. and Adah Maurer Ph.D.

Most compelling of all reasons to abandon this worst of all bad habits is the fact that buttock-battering can be unintentional sexual abuse for some children. There is an abundance of educational resources, testimony, documentation, etc available on the subject that can easily be found by doing a little research with the recommended reads-visit www.nospank.net.

Just a handful of those helping to raise awareness of why child bottom-slapping isn't a good idea:

American Academy of Pediatrics,
American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry,
Center For Effective Discipline,
PsycHealth Ltd Behavioral Health Professionals,
Churches' Network For Non-Violence,
Nobel Peace Prize recipient Archbishop Desmond Tutu,
Parenting In Jesus' Footsteps,
Global Initiative To End All Corporal Punishment of Children,
United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child.

In 26 countries, child corporal punishment is prohibited by law (with more in process). In fact, the US was the only UN member that did not ratify the Convention on the Rights of the Child.
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