Oppinion: spanking children

[Rillion]

I have no idea why you're trying so hard to justify "swatting" kids.

I'm not.  I just think you're being an ass by insisting that spanking a kid makes a person Satan.  Maybe it's not the best parenting method, but for some reason no other less-than-perfect parenting method seems to get people more in a tizzy than spanking.  My parents spanked me on a very infrequent basis, but they were better parents than many who do not spank, and they sure as hell did not teach me that violence is the appropriate solution to every problem or any of that nonsense.  You also effectively called my mother a cunt, which doesn't tend to go over well with any audience. 

The number of stupid, harmful things that kids can do is virtually infinite.  If you spank a kid for doing something one day, that doesn't by any means indicate that he won't do something different but equally bad another day for which you'd spank him again.  The same holds true for every other form of punishment, yet you're not insisting that a parent shouldn't put Junior in the corner just because they might have to do it again some other day. 

Your arguments are overblown, illogical, and insulting.  That's what I object to. 

[fatcat]

I have no idea why you're trying so hard to justify "swatting" kids.

I'm not.  I just think you're being an ass by insisting that spanking a kid makes a person Satan.

Spanking kids is not the end of the world, but it does appear to be entirely unnecessary and a very lazy and vulgar way of dealing with your kids misbehavior.

I'm sure there's a frequency/severity of spanking that you would find appalling to see in a parent/child relationship, and theres a reason for that. Just because mild/moderate spanking has negligible negative effects / repulsion factor, doesn't mean it should just be accepted as something parents need to do sometimes, specially when theres lots of evidence that its not.

The number of stupid, harmful things that kids can do is virtually infinite.  If you spank a kid for doing something one day, that doesn't by any means indicate that he won't do something different but equally bad another day for which you'd spank him again.  The same holds true for every other form of punishment, yet you're not insisting that a parent shouldn't put Junior in the corner just because they might have to do it again some other day.  

The point is no punishments will cause long term behavioral change, only understanding will do that. My whole point is that you should strive for a point where you no longer need to use punishments to deal with your children, and it seems to me using punishments that involve more respect and communication than hitting are more likely to achieve that understanding. Especially punishments that reinforce the role of the parent (i.e. I'm not going to buy you ice cream), rather than petty sadism.

The fact that spanking appears to achieve nothing that can't be achieved by time out/confiscation of toys/whatever is what makes me so animated.

Not because spanking is the ultimate evil, but because its so unnecessary, and seems to only come from a place of lazyness or complacency with the status quo, or even worse, because parents are getting overly emotional.

Also I did qualify my cunt comments. I said if someone is spanking because they're impatient or don't want to make the time for other types of discipline, then they're a cunt. If they think spanking genuinely is the only way to deal with kids misbehavior, then they're just misguided cunts.

 

[blackie]

Why do people act like spanking isn't used along with other methods of discipline?

[blackie]

I'm sure there's a frequency/severity of spanking that you would find appalling to see in a parent/child relationship, and theres a reason for that. Just because mild/moderate spanking has negligible negative effects / repulsion factor, doesn't mean it should just be accepted as something parents need to do sometimes, specially when theres lots of evidence that its not.

You can say the same thing about time outs. If you put a kid in a time out for a year...

Putting your kid in time out is teaching them that caging people is the best way to achieve your goals.

[fatcat]

I'm sure there's a frequency/severity of spanking that you would find appalling to see in a parent/child relationship, and theres a reason for that. Just because mild/moderate spanking has negligible negative effects / repulsion factor, doesn't mean it should just be accepted as something parents need to do sometimes, specially when theres lots of evidence that its not.

You can say the same thing about time outs. If you put a kid in a time out for a year...

Putting your kid in time out is teaching them that caging people is the best way to achieve your goals.

Except you can't time out a kid so hard they bleed or break a bone. I'm not a particular big fan of the whole isolation form of punishment, withholding privileges sits better with me.

Obviously any form of punishment can be open to abuse, but I can't think of one so distasteful and prone to maltreatment as corporal punishment.

[blackie]

Except you can't time out a kid so hard they bleed or break a bone.

Sure they could.


http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/17/seclusion.rooms/index.html?iref=newssearch

MURRAYVILLE, Georgia (CNN)  -- A few weeks before 13-year-old Jonathan King killed himself, he told his parents that his teachers had put him in "time-out."

 "We thought that meant go sit in the corner and be quiet for a few minutes," Tina King said, tears washing her face as she remembered the child she called "our baby ... a good kid."

But time-out in the boy's north Georgia special education school was spent in something akin to a prison cell -- a concrete room latched from the outside, its tiny window obscured by a piece of paper.

Called a seclusion room, it's where in November 2004, Jonathan hanged himself with a cord a teacher gave him to hold up his pants.

[Rillion]

Obviously any form of punishment can be open to abuse, but I can't think of one so distasteful and prone to maltreatment as corporal punishment.

Verbal abuse, threats of hellfire, long-term isolation, and other forms of psychological manipulation....yeah, I can think of a few. 

[anarchir]

Except you can't time out a kid so hard they bleed or break a bone.

Sure they could.


http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/17/seclusion.rooms/index.html?iref=newssearch

MURRAYVILLE, Georgia (CNN)  -- A few weeks before 13-year-old Jonathan King killed himself, he told his parents that his teachers had put him in "time-out."

 "We thought that meant go sit in the corner and be quiet for a few minutes," Tina King said, tears washing her face as she remembered the child she called "our baby ... a good kid."

But time-out in the boy's north Georgia special education school was spent in something akin to a prison cell -- a concrete room latched from the outside, its tiny window obscured by a piece of paper.

Called a seclusion room, it's where in November 2004, Jonathan hanged himself with a cord a teacher gave him to hold up his pants.

We totally had a room like that at my highschool/middle school. Under the first supernintendent/principal I had it was for studying. Under the second one it was where you went when you were in trouble or got ISS (in school suspension). I never had to go there but it was basically an all white room with a table and a chair. Brutal. Some kids had to spend all day in there at times.

[fatcat]

Obviously any form of punishment can be open to abuse, but I can't think of one so distasteful and prone to maltreatment as corporal punishment.

Verbal abuse, threats of hellfire, long-term isolation, and other forms of psychological manipulation....yeah, I can think of a few. 

So being told you're a worthless faggot who's going to burn in hell is worse than broken ribs?

Besides locking someone in a room for days on end I can't see how any of that compares to strong physical violence. Not that this is even really on the topic of spanking anymore, but the statistics for physical and mental harm caused by physical abuse towers over the non physical, although the recording of that kind of abuse is inherently sketchy.

[Rillion]

So being told you're a worthless faggot who's going to burn in hell is worse than broken ribs?

Is it really fair to compare middling verbal abuse to extreme physical abuse?  No, I don't think so, and it doesn't apply to your argument anyway since you're arguing against all  corporal punishment as if every form of it is worse than every other form of punishment you could inflict. 

[fatcat]

So being told you're a worthless faggot who's going to burn in hell is worse than broken ribs?

Is it really fair to compare middling verbal abuse to extreme physical abuse?  No, I don't think so, and it doesn't apply to your argument anyway since you're arguing against all  corporal punishment as if every form of it is worse than every other form of punishment you could inflict. 

Well that wasn't my intention. Clearly extremely mild verbal physical abuse could for some people be not as bad as some forms of psychological head fucking.

I think intending to cause your kids pain, verbal or physical, even if you think you are doing it for their own good is fucked up.

I guess thats the only argument I really care about, and shouldn't have wasted so much time on back and forth bullshit.

[Rillion]

Well that wasn't my intention. Clearly extremely mild verbal physical abuse could for some people be not as bad as some forms of psychological head fucking.

I think intending to cause your kids pain, verbal or physical, even if you think you are doing it for their own good is fucked up.

I guess thats the only argument I really care about, and shouldn't have wasted so much time on back and forth bullshit.

Well, okay.  Does that mean you think any and all punishment is fucked up?  Because I think that "inflicting pain for their own good" is a pretty good definition of it. 

[freeAgent]

My parents spanked me as a child, and I turned out fine.  I certainly don't think it's good to do it when it can be reasonably avoided, but I don't think that spanking is always and necessarily wrong.  Also, I've got a pretty good IQ even having been spanked.  I have no idea how spanking could influence intelligence unless your definition of spanking is punching your kid in the head.

[Terror Australis]

Power, unless justified, is inherently illegitimate. The burden of proof is on those in authority to demonstrate why their elevated position is justified. If this burden can't be met, the authority in question should be dismantled. Authority for its own sake is inherently unjustified. An example of a legitimate authority is that exerted by an adult to prevent a young child from wandering into traffic.

[hellbilly]

I'm far from a saint, and I don't spank.

My son is nearly 9 and was swatted once over the running in the parking lot thing every parent seems to deal with, and even then I didn't think it was the right thing to do.

I've yelled over serous stuff (my son has a peanut allergy & tried some chocolate a friend gave him at school.. the day after we'd discussed how important it is not to do that). The yelling seemed to frighten him worse than the spanking.. so I don't like to yell either.

With a 9 year old and a 3 year old, no spankings (except for the one) and very little yelling, I've managed to raise 2 well behaved and smart kids. Secret might be to do a lot of talking to them, explaining the severity of situations, and to keep your word. "Do that one more time kid and you're in TIMEOUT!" .. if you say it, then do it & kids will get the gist.