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Author Topic: No Historical Evidence of a Free Society  (Read 3053 times)

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Tom Foppiano

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No Historical Evidence of a Free Society
« on: May 06, 2012, 12:07:35 AM »

I loved the discussion you guys had with the lefty radio host a few days ago. During the discussion, Dr Knows Whats Best mentioned something like..."there is no evidence that society can exist without monopolist government."

While its been a long time since I've read rebuttals to this criticism, one of the responses I remember finding interesting is that at one point in time there was no evidence that a large prosperous society could exist without a king/queen. Think about it from their pre-democracy perspective.....how in the world can society function without a central ruler who can make all decisions? If people could vote, wouldn't all of the competing interests create complete chaos that would result in the utter destruction of civilization itself? Wouldn't all of the laws change every election? And aren't people too stupid to pick the correct ruler?

And since most of the people who argue against liberty are huge fans of "democracy," you can remind them that their beloved institution took thousands and thousands of years to blossom.

Plus, people said the same stuff about abolition. "We have always had slaves. How could we have a functioning economy, peace & tranquility, and the rule of law without slavery? I mean, its in the bible isn't it?" Again, same argument.



As Roderick Long once said on this very topic, "The night is young." (Meaning, modern civilization is brand new and human beings have a long future ahead were social structures can change.)
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Tom Foppiano

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Re: No Historical Evidence of a Free Society
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2012, 12:10:33 AM »

Oh and Murray Rothbard has written a lot about historical societies that shared many of the same characteristics he argued in favor of.

But obviously, from our perspective, they eventually failed because they no longer exist. Anyways............
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freeAgent

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Re: No Historical Evidence of a Free Society
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2012, 09:41:19 AM »

Good point(s).
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Disengage

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Re: No Historical Evidence of a Free Society
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2012, 10:10:37 PM »

My response to the "no historical evidence" argument is simple:  "SO WHAT?"

At one point in the past, there was "no historical evidence" that life would evolve on the planet.   

But I always like to strike the root:  Lack of historical evidence doesn't grant you the right to steal from me and use violence against me.     This renders arguments about "historical evidence" moot.   

History (or lack therof) != Right to Exclusive Use of Force.
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Turd Ferguson

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Re: No Historical Evidence of a Free Society
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2012, 11:20:18 PM »

I've come to believe that if you are ever going to see a truly free society, you have no choice but to also have the largest military in the world (purely defensive of course) to back it up. If you dont have that,  whoever has the largest military in the world will inevitably come along to take you over and force their will on you. That is their nature. They always do this and always will.
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dalebert

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Re: No Historical Evidence of a Free Society
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2012, 10:01:19 AM »

So the truly free society will always invade other countries to force the will of... who? the free people? ...on the not-free people.

edmnd

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Re: No Historical Evidence of a Free Society
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2012, 10:09:35 AM »

I've come to believe that if you are ever going to see a truly free society, you have no choice but to also have the largest military in the world (purely defensive of course) to back it up. If you dont have that,  whoever has the largest military in the world will inevitably come along to take you over and force their will on you.

Aren't you equally liable to domestic military abuses?
You have to pay dearly for their excursions and adventures..
Then you have to trust the integrity of congress and the president not to misuse them..
And you have to live with the possibility that someday that M-16 may be pointed at you.

If you have a football team, aren't they going to want to play football?
In fact, aren't they going to have to play football to justify having the team?

Wouldn't it be a safer bet to have the worlds largest and soundest economy that can instantly be turned into a war machine for defensive purposes instead of having a perpetual standing army?

1. nations that trade freely are less likely to feud.
2. poorer nations generally don't try to invade or annex a richer one, do they?
« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 10:22:59 AM by edmnd »
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Turd Ferguson

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Re: No Historical Evidence of a Free Society
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2012, 10:59:13 AM »

So the truly free society will always invade other countries to force the will of... who? the free people? ...on the not-free people.



No, not a military for invading. Strictly for defending itself against attempts by non-free societies who would inevitably try to take their "stuff" and force their will upon them. Ya know, kinda like the US military does to other countries right now.

Its a valid concern, right?
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