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Author Topic: Negative Nancy  (Read 8938 times)

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LTKoblinsky

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Negative Nancy
« on: January 05, 2011, 11:40:38 PM »

I don't mean to be one, but the way in which Mark and Ian dismiss capitalism really bugs me. I haven't listened much this week, but regularly over the last year or more, the hosts have periodically dismissed and in some cases derided "capitalism" based on collectivist/socialist perceptions of the concept.
Capitalism is, generally, an economic system of private ownership. With ownership, individuals are inherently given control of said property. This logically implies laisse faire government.  Any restriction on the rights of ownership or contract are NOT capitalistic. Because there has never been a truly capitalistic economy (internet, maybe, but that's a different discussion), discussion of economics is done in relative measures. More or less capitalistic in the context of this discussion. The American system is given the title "capitalist" (historically speaking) in that it has been the freest economy in world history, on net. This does not logically imply that Keynesian, Progressive, or Special Interest policies are capitalist.
As for the label argument, allowing opponents to define your vehicle of communication is absurd. Historically, liberty loving people have been chased from their stances. First, liberals were traitors (first to the Crown, then to the Union), then capitalists were cronies, and anarchists are thugs. Where does that leave people like Ian? Well, they have two choices: 1) I prefer not to label myself. I prefer to spell out every individual belief I have to anyone who asks. Plus, I hate being staked to one position; isn't it freer to be able to flit inanely from idea to idea? or 2) I'm a voluntary-anarcho-pantheo-libero-pacifi-peace- (insert label of the day here).


Now, I'm not saying that the hosts and guests aren't intelligent, just that often, they make absurd, uninformed declarations. The Cap. one just happens to be a peave of mine.

Full disclosure: I graduated from a public university with a degree in economics.
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FTL_Mark

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Re: Negative Nancy
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2011, 09:24:49 AM »

LTKoblinsky are you gay?



No? Well I am as happy as I can be.

Did you think I was asking something else?
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Osborne

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Re: Negative Nancy
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2011, 11:10:20 AM »

I feel your pain, LT. When you are used to communicating inside the group of folk who understand word meanings, it takes a long time to adjust to dealing with the ignorant masses outside in the world.

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LTKoblinsky

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Re: Negative Nancy
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2011, 12:55:23 AM »

It's simply a matter of intellectual legitimacy. If you host a show on the basis of freedom and liberty and you specifically support free markets, you should (<warning! Opinion) be able to clearly articulate the different facets of said concept. i.e. not only should Mark and Ian know what "Capitalism" means, but be able to effectively argue for or against.

My personal opinion is that they should embrace the term capitalism and seek to clarify and strengthen listeners' ideas of it.
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alaric89

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Re: Negative Nancy
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2011, 03:01:21 AM »

I understand that Mark and Ian have a difficult job trying to talk to a international audience and be clear. Regular listeners should be better at understanding their positions then people who stumble upon the show. I wouldn't listen to Dictionary Talk Live.

LTKoblinsky

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Re: Negative Nancy
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2011, 04:10:52 PM »

Knowing the meaning of a word wouldn't make FTL into Dictionary Talk Live.
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FTL_Mark

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Re: Negative Nancy
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2011, 09:04:31 PM »

LT, we discussed your post in the second hour of tonight's show. I hope we cleared up our thoughts on the subject. Feel free to call in if you have anything else to share.
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LTKoblinsky

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Re: Negative Nancy
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2011, 11:37:45 PM »

Damn it! I was on the road tonight. I'll check out the podcast...
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voodoo

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Re: Negative Nancy
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2011, 12:52:36 AM »

<spoiler>Dictionary definitions of words are not permissible, but the Thesaurus reigns supreme.</spoiler>
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LTKoblinsky

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Re: Negative Nancy
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2011, 12:23:53 AM »

The academic, huh? That hurts my feeling.  :lol:

Now, the point about 90% of how people perceive a word determines its true meaning is misleading. if a biologist describes evolution to a Christian, the Christian is going to hear "We came from monkeys." Does this make the entire broad, complex concept of evolution into "man from monkeys."

BTW: I'm no teacher. I work in the manufacturing industry. I'm also not a conservative. I'll try to call in later this week when I get my voice back from illness.
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libertylover

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Re: Negative Nancy
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2011, 12:36:37 AM »

Most people who are against capitalism are actually angry about cronie capitalism or mercantilism.  People understand the concept of companies using government regulation, handouts and taxes to eliminate free market competition.  The problem is they think the correct term is Capitalism.  

The question becomes how do you steer into the skid of the evolving meaning of Capitalism without wrecking the free market bus.  

I have found usually once a term has evolved new accepted meaning it is highly unlikely that it will return to it's original meaning.  Think about it when is the last time you heard someone use the term Gay to mean happy?

I'll have to listen to the pod cast myself.  Sorry if I have repeated any concepts already covered.
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LTKoblinsky

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Re: Negative Nancy
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2011, 12:40:39 AM »

Also, listening on a bit further: Picking apart one word (opponent) the way you did simply served to misdirect my point. Opponents in this case are not every person you speak with, but are rulers and supporters of the rulers trying to regulate your life.  
I also made no allusions to slavery or coercion. I merely stated my position in a passive manner that you chose to read. My attempts are not to control you or change your entire show. It was explicitly stated that it was my personal opinion about one small aspect of your show.  
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LTKoblinsky

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Re: Negative Nancy
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2011, 12:44:54 AM »

Most people who are against capitalism are actually angry about cronie capitalism or mercantilism.  People understand the concept of companies using government regulation, handouts and taxes to eliminate free market competition.  The problem is they think the correct term is Capitalism.  

The question becomes how do you steer into the skid of the evolving meaning of Capitalism without wrecking the free market bus.  

I have found usually once a term has evolved new accepted meaning it is highly unlikely that it will return to it's original meaning.  Think about it when is the last time you heard someone use the term Gay to mean happy?

I'll have to listen to the pod cast myself.  Sorry if I have repeated any concepts already covered.


I understand the point about "gay." It doesn't counter my point about the word "evolution."

*Goddamit! I'm still listening to this and they keep saying that I'm bent out of shape over this. Since when does starting a discussion make me a pissed off asshole?!"
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FTL_Mark

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Re: Negative Nancy
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2011, 10:38:52 AM »

*Goddamit! I'm still listening to this and they keep saying that I'm bent out of shape over this. Since when does starting a discussion make me a pissed off asshole?!"

Hey, I didn't say anything like that.
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No one has conjectured that I could quite possibly be a Libertarian posing as an Anarchist trying to pretend to still be a Libertarian; or what I like to call an Anarcho-Hustler.

LTKoblinsky

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Re: Negative Nancy
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2011, 05:54:27 PM »

*Goddamit! I'm still listening to this and they keep saying that I'm bent out of shape over this. Since when does starting a discussion make me a pissed off asshole?!"

Hey, I didn't say anything like that.
No, but you accused me of trying to enslave you, of seeking homogenization, of elitism, and generally derided me for 20 minutes. The comment "If you want to say something, you should start your own show." is especially ironic on Free Talk Live. What's that slogan, again? "Talk radio you control"?
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