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Author Topic: Libertarianism and Religion  (Read 39159 times)

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Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #120 on: February 24, 2009, 08:12:41 PM »

I should say I find atheists to be just as close minded when discussing the idea that an intelligent being created life as religious people are about discussing the validity of their religion.

I'm plenty open minded.

Heres an open invitation to anyone who has a religious belief on this board. Tell me what it is, and why you believe it to be true, and I will evaluate it and tell you whether I agree, and the reasons why I do or don't agree.


I believe it is wrong to steal.

The philosopher will tell you it is wrong to steal because since everyone has a reasonable expectation that they dont like to be stolen from, that they canot take from others.

I disagree, and rather assert that although everyone has this reasonable expectation, stealing is wrong because G-d said so.
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I am looking for an honest man. -Diogenes The Cynic

Dude, I thought you were a spambot for like a week. You posted like a spambot. You failed the Turing test.

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #121 on: February 24, 2009, 08:25:50 PM »

I should say I find atheists to be just as close minded when discussing the idea that an intelligent being created life as religious people are about discussing the validity of their religion.

I'm plenty open minded.

Heres an open invitation to anyone who has a religious belief on this board. Tell me what it is, and why you believe it to be true, and I will evaluate it and tell you whether I agree, and the reasons why I do or don't agree.


I believe it is wrong to steal.

The philosopher will tell you it is wrong to steal because since everyone has a reasonable expectation that they dont like to be stolen from, that they canot take from others.

I disagree, and rather assert that although everyone has this reasonable expectation, stealing is wrong because G-d said so.

Then you're a dipshit.
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rabidfurby

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #122 on: February 24, 2009, 08:36:56 PM »

...stealing is wrong because G-d said so.

Are there actions that are wrong that god didn't say anything about?

Are there actions that are wrong that god said are correct?
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Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #123 on: February 24, 2009, 08:44:20 PM »

I should say I find atheists to be just as close minded when discussing the idea that an intelligent being created life as religious people are about discussing the validity of their religion.

I'm plenty open minded.

Heres an open invitation to anyone who has a religious belief on this board. Tell me what it is, and why you believe it to be true, and I will evaluate it and tell you whether I agree, and the reasons why I do or don't agree.


I believe it is wrong to steal.

The philosopher will tell you it is wrong to steal because since everyone has a reasonable expectation that they dont like to be stolen from, that they canot take from others.

I disagree, and rather assert that although everyone has this reasonable expectation, stealing is wrong because G-d said so.

Then you're a dipshit.

I hope you can see the irony of a person whose signature is a quote about a logical fallacy (misplaced burden of proof) would only resort to an ad hominem attack.
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I am looking for an honest man. -Diogenes The Cynic

Dude, I thought you were a spambot for like a week. You posted like a spambot. You failed the Turing test.

                                -Dennis Goddard

Spideynw

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #124 on: February 24, 2009, 09:45:54 PM »

I should say I find atheists to be just as close minded when discussing the idea that an intelligent being created life as religious people are about discussing the validity of their religion.

I'm plenty open minded.

You may be.  I am just saying it has been my experience that such is not the case.  I am a deist, as such I do not believe in any revealed religions, just a creator.  Since most of what we have created is not found in nature, I highly doubt a non-intelligence (nature) could have created life, something we have yet to create, besides bacteria genomes.  And even if we could create intelligent life, that would just prove to me even more that it takes intelligence to create life.
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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #125 on: February 24, 2009, 11:26:48 PM »

I should say I find atheists to be just as close minded when discussing the idea that an intelligent being created life as religious people are about discussing the validity of their religion.

I'm plenty open minded.

Heres an open invitation to anyone who has a religious belief on this board. Tell me what it is, and why you believe it to be true, and I will evaluate it and tell you whether I agree, and the reasons why I do or don't agree.


I believe it is wrong to steal.

The philosopher will tell you it is wrong to steal because since everyone has a reasonable expectation that they dont like to be stolen from, that they canot take from others.

I disagree, and rather assert that although everyone has this reasonable expectation, stealing is wrong because G-d said so.

Then you're a dipshit.

I hope you can see the irony of a person whose signature is a quote about a logical fallacy (misplaced burden of proof) would only resort to an ad hominem attack.
Logic only applies to arguments, not insults.
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hellbilly

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #126 on: February 25, 2009, 01:53:22 AM »

I believe it is wrong to steal.

The philosopher will tell you it is wrong to steal because since everyone has a reasonable expectation that they dont like to be stolen from, that they canot take from others.

I disagree, and rather assert that although everyone has this reasonable expectation, stealing is wrong because G-d said so.

Gotta be a joke.
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hellbilly

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #127 on: February 25, 2009, 01:58:27 AM »

I am a deist, as such I do not believe in any revealed religions, just a creator.  Since most of what we have created is not found in nature, I highly doubt a non-intelligence (nature) could have created life, something we have yet to create, besides bacteria genomes.  And even if we could create intelligent life, that would just prove to me even more that it takes intelligence to create life.

As a deist, what is your source for maintaining proper morality?

I'll also add that whatever we have created is made of only things that nature has produced. Our monkey brains have simply re-arranged it to be shiny or do something fanciful. Also consider the mind-bending time frame since whatever kicked it all off happened. Takes a long time to evolve to the point where you want to make shiny doo-dads and watch TV.
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Give me Liberty or give me Meth!

"We are profoundly dissatisfied with pretty much everything but we can’t articulate why, and are unable to offer any viable alternative." - Nathaniel Weiner

Spideynw

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #128 on: February 25, 2009, 09:37:08 AM »


As a deist, what is your source for maintaining proper morality?

Logic.  Or do you mean something else?

Quote
I'll also add that whatever we have created is made of only things that nature has produced.

Or what some other intelligent being produced...

Quote
Our monkey brains

We have human brains.

Quote
have simply re-arranged it to be shiny or do something fanciful. Also consider the mind-bending time frame since whatever kicked it all off happened. Takes a long time to evolve to the point where you want to make shiny doo-dads and watch TV.

I am not sure what your point is?  Also, do we have evidence of evolution for all species on earth, like giraffes?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2009, 11:11:06 AM by Spideynw »
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Rillion

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #129 on: February 25, 2009, 10:42:48 AM »

I hope you can see the irony of a person whose signature is a quote about a logical fallacy (misplaced burden of proof) would only resort to an ad hominem attack.

You need to refresh your memory on what an ad hominem attack is.  Calling someone a dispshit isn't it. 
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hellbilly

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #130 on: February 25, 2009, 06:11:51 PM »


As a deist, what is your source for maintaining proper morality?

Logic.  Or do you mean something else?

Just paralleling the conversation with the Cynic re: the need for religious texts to dictate morality. Logic is all that's needed.

Quote
I'll also add that whatever we have created is made of only things that nature has produced.

Quote
Or what some other intelligent being produced...

Maybe. But I'm not ready to place total belief in that "maybe". Safer bet to go with what is known. A Creator of any kind just isn't needed in the equation.

Quote
Our monkey brains

Quote
We have human brains.

You know what I mean. Our brains are still advancing, we're still inching towards more truths. Streamlining the process by eliminating numerous "maybes" would be a good idea.

Quote
have simply re-arranged it to be shiny or do something fanciful. Also consider the mind-bending time frame since whatever kicked it all off happened. Takes a long time to evolve to the point where you want to make shiny doo-dads and watch TV.

Quote
I am not sure what your point is?  Also, do we have evidence of evolution for all species on earth, like giraffes?

The evidence for evolution is tangible, even though incomplete. There simply is no evidence for intelligent design. The point is that we're still in the process of development, always will be. At the moment, we've paused to do a lot of useless practices and some major ones. As time goes on, hopefully the infatuation with making and being entertained by trinkets will pass to make way for more productive gains.

My son and I were joking about the Super Bowl and how so many people get the fever over it, but scientists and other discoverers don't even get a nod. He was wondering why there was no Super Bowl for Scientist. The best answer that I could give him was that people are just more interested in other things.. namely playtime and religion, which I didn't name, but I think that's a problem.

Ideally for me, Science, Philosophy and Art (the roots of worthy cultures) would be society's main interests. Playtime (which includes religion, even abstract religions such as pantheism) and trinkets also fit in, but just not as priorities.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2009, 06:14:26 PM by BootiePhreakin »
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Give me Liberty or give me Meth!

"We are profoundly dissatisfied with pretty much everything but we can’t articulate why, and are unable to offer any viable alternative." - Nathaniel Weiner

blackie

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #131 on: February 25, 2009, 06:26:11 PM »

Art goes into the "playtime" category.
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Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #132 on: February 25, 2009, 07:02:13 PM »


As a deist, what is your source for maintaining proper morality?

Logic.  Or do you mean something else?

Just paralleling the conversation with the Cynic re: the need for religious texts to dictate morality. Logic is all that's needed.


Right. But what when someone comes up with a logical viewpoint that shatters an established moral?
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I am looking for an honest man. -Diogenes The Cynic

Dude, I thought you were a spambot for like a week. You posted like a spambot. You failed the Turing test.

                                -Dennis Goddard

hellbilly

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #133 on: February 25, 2009, 09:22:37 PM »


As a deist, what is your source for maintaining proper morality?

Logic.  Or do you mean something else?

Just paralleling the conversation with the Cynic re: the need for religious texts to dictate morality. Logic is all that's needed.


Right. But what when someone comes up with a logical viewpoint that shatters an established moral?

Dunno, try me.
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Give me Liberty or give me Meth!

"We are profoundly dissatisfied with pretty much everything but we can’t articulate why, and are unable to offer any viable alternative." - Nathaniel Weiner

hellbilly

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #134 on: February 25, 2009, 09:24:06 PM »

Art goes into the "playtime" category.

Nope.

Unless it's the kooky sort of "Installation Artist".. guys with lice, the "Unmade Bed" exhibit, etc.
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Give me Liberty or give me Meth!

"We are profoundly dissatisfied with pretty much everything but we can’t articulate why, and are unable to offer any viable alternative." - Nathaniel Weiner
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