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Author Topic: Libertarianism and Religion  (Read 39164 times)

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PaulO

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #60 on: February 13, 2009, 03:57:26 PM »

I think you're jumping to conclusions. Just because my eyes interpret the following picture as moving does not mean my mind is incapable of figuring it out. Like I said, I put more faith in my ability to deduct and reason than my ability to sense and experience (drugs have taught me experiences can be completely fabricated.)
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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #61 on: February 13, 2009, 04:01:52 PM »

I think you're jumping to conclusions. Just because my eyes interpret the following picture as moving does not mean my mind is incapable of figuring it out. Like I said, I put more faith in my ability to deduct and reason than my ability to sense and experience (drugs have taught me experiences can be completely fabricated.)

You're making the same fallacious conclusion that Ernst Mach did a century and a half ago, that because there are certain features of sensation which can be altered by natural features of how the senses work (such as the optical illusion of motion in the picture shown above) that some how the senses are faulty. The fact that I can observe both that the image seems to be in motion, but then use measurements (outside references not of the image itself) then I can see that there is no motion. Therefore, I have shown that my own senses can be trusted in as much as they're part of a singular unit of perception married cognition and vice versa (as cognition is merely perception of memory). Remember, sensation doesn't just come in without your nervous system and brain to parse the data further. From there for the mind to examine it against memory to know what is true and what is false.

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PaulO

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #62 on: February 13, 2009, 04:25:22 PM »

You asked if I trust my mind and my senses, to which I replied, "The best I can say is that I do not completely trust my senses and my experiences. I place more faith in deduction and reasoning, but I still make lots of mistakes."

When it comes to making decisions about what is true and what is not, I place more emphasis on deduction and reasoning than purely senses and experiences.  I'm not sure what the contention is.
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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #63 on: February 13, 2009, 06:51:03 PM »

You asked if I trust my mind and my senses, to which I replied, "The best I can say is that I do not completely trust my senses and my experiences. I place more faith in deduction and reasoning, but I still make lots of mistakes."

When it comes to making decisions about what is true and what is not, I place more emphasis on deduction and reasoning than purely senses and experiences.  I'm not sure what the contention is.

That you really can't separate the two.
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jeffersonish

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #64 on: February 13, 2009, 08:41:50 PM »

forget that shit just be nice to everyone all the time and you're set. Mark 12:28-34



New Ecolitan Version (NEV) of the Bible   :lol:
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jeffersonish

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #65 on: February 13, 2009, 08:50:12 PM »

God only exists on Friday. Satan on Monday.

Zeus and Thor split up the rest of the time. Eris and J. R. Bob Dobbs play backup in case Zeus and Thor are busy turning into interesting things to have sex with, or smashing shit.

Buddah doesn't exist at all, and he wouldn't want it any other way.

I am right and everyone else is doomed to eternal torment. Now please, join my religion and SEND ME MONEY.

I would except I know you're wrong about God and Satan... They're the same dude and therefore have to exist on the same day. I call schism from the dualists.
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jeffersonish

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #66 on: February 13, 2009, 09:07:49 PM »

Quote


    “I don’t know if I can tell you exactly when the pussy generation started...”


OH OH OH... Mr. Kottah!!! IIIIIIII know when the pussy generation started. It was when they made Deep Throat with Linda Lovelace and the government got all bent out of shape cracking down on smut movies. It made people vely intewested. From then on it was just pussy this and pussy that all over the place.
   Arnold Horshack - Sweathog
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jeffersonish

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #67 on: February 13, 2009, 09:37:14 PM »

And now for my serious take... I don't think libertarianism and religion are mutually exclusive, but I do think many particular religious beliefs are incompatible to one degree or another. If you think your religious beliefs should be enforced through force, you are not libertarian - your liberty philosophy has a blind spot. I think that is why I have found a shockingly (to me at first anyway) number of atheists in the LP. I have been to 2 state conventions and 1 national. A notable exception would be most of the people who voted for Bob Barr to be the LP nominee, mostly from Southern states. (I voted for Mary Ruwart right up to the last ballot despite the outlandish child molestation mudslinging campaign.)

I even find many of the people attached to the Ron Paul campaign to be unlibertarian because of this blind spot if you will. I was a huge Ron Paul supporter and still am given he is light years closer to true libertarianism than his closest Congressional member rival. I disagree with him on abortion, and my big beef with him there is his disrespect for his own condemnation of commerce clause abuse when he voted for the partial birth abortion ban. But that's a constitutional issue, not libertarianism per se. When it comes to immigration, I think he could be more libertarian even considering the pragmatism of border protection until we get rid of the welfare state.

But after the primary was decided, it seemed those who hung onto the C4L/Ron Paul movement around here anyway were more John Birch and Constitution Party than libertarian. They believe in God, Country and the Pledge of Allegiance in that order. They don't mind exercising a little uninitiated force when someone shows disrespect for their guy in the sky or the star spangled banner. I find that mindset disgusting. They aren't content to let gay people be equal citizens and they usually have a hard time with legalizing drugs, especially the non-pot variety.

I've had more than one person noting my atheist and libertarian viewpoints say something like, "You just don't like anyone else telling you what to do." and I would say they are very right about that.
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ericlee29

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #68 on: February 13, 2009, 10:01:27 PM »

i personally apologize for some of the harsh Christian people that yall have talked to. But here i must say one thing. Liberty is good. License isnt. This is why i say this; you cant just do what you want to do and not affect anyone else. But i understand that you have a harsh view of us Christians, and possibly even Jesus. Now as far ive found and studied, Jesus operated off of two central truths: love and truth. If you love someone you will tell them the truth. If you tell the truth to someone that shows that you love them.
Now also truth is truth. no matter what you want it to be. Its not relative. 2+2=4 it doesnt equal 5 no matter how much you want it to. also you cant take a two way drive down a one way street; if you do then you will have a crash. Now, as far as the hurting people thing. You cannot just do whatever you like even if you do not think you are not hurting anyone. The law is the law and most logical laws are meant to protect you not hurt you.
Thats my two blurbs. By the way i am Eric Lee but i am a conservative Christian. I am extremely accepting of other people, but i do not agree with what they do; such as what my Savior Jesus calls sexual immorality. This includes homosexuality. I WANT TO MAKE IT PERFECTLY CLEAR; I DO NOT HATE HOMOSEXUALS OR ANY PEOPLE FOR ANY REASONS. Not agreeing with the behavior of someone and standing up for what is right and morally responsible is not hate. It is however free speech and not hate speech. No i do not agree with the lifestyle, but i still love the person. Please understand i mean no bigotry or harm in saying this.
By the way, i HATE religion! What real Christians have is relationships with God thru Jesus Christ. Not Religion. Real Relationship.
Jesus love be with you,
Eric Lee 
« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 10:04:31 PM by ericlee29 »
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Ecolitan

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2009, 11:05:42 PM »

New Ecolitan Version (NEV) of the Bible   :lol:

I am so putting that away for future use.
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ericlee29

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #70 on: February 13, 2009, 11:21:56 PM »

God only exists on Friday. Satan on Monday.

Zeus and Thor split up the rest of the time. Eris and J. R. Bob Dobbs play backup in case Zeus and Thor are busy turning into interesting things to have sex with, or smashing shit.

Buddah doesn't exist at all, and he wouldn't want it any other way.

I am right and everyone else is doomed to eternal torment. Now please, join my religion and SEND ME MONEY.

I would except I know you're wrong about God and Satan... They're the same dude and therefore have to exist on the same day. I call schism from the dualists.


nope they arent. God is God and He created Lucifer. Who became the Accuser (Satan). And rebelled against mighty God. (the Dragon)
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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2009, 11:23:52 PM »

God only exists on Friday. Satan on Monday.

Zeus and Thor split up the rest of the time. Eris and J. R. Bob Dobbs play backup in case Zeus and Thor are busy turning into interesting things to have sex with, or smashing shit.

Buddah doesn't exist at all, and he wouldn't want it any other way.

I am right and everyone else is doomed to eternal torment. Now please, join my religion and SEND ME MONEY.

I would except I know you're wrong about God and Satan... They're the same dude and therefore have to exist on the same day. I call schism from the dualists.


nope they arent. God is God and He created Lucifer. Who became the Accuser (Satan). And rebelled against mighty God. (the Dragon)


Nope, Satan isn't Lucifer. You need to read Job again, he never rebels at any time. Only Christians and proto-Christians invented Lucifer. Judaism doesn't operate under the same dualistic intentions, either, so Christianity doesn't even have a theological leg to stand on when considering just that fact alone.
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ericlee29

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2009, 11:35:29 PM »

Who do you think makes you think this is so? Lucifer aka Satan.
"the things of the God are foolishness to the things of the flesh."
"and they traded the truth for a lie"
"And God sent them a strong delusion, because they refused the truth but gave themselves to a lie"
Oh and guess where Christianity came from? Judiasm.
Guess who runs that? God.
Any more Refutes?
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jeffersonish

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #73 on: February 14, 2009, 01:32:37 AM »

God only exists on Friday. Satan on Monday.

Zeus and Thor split up the rest of the time. Eris and J. R. Bob Dobbs play backup in case Zeus and Thor are busy turning into interesting things to have sex with, or smashing shit.

Buddah doesn't exist at all, and he wouldn't want it any other way.

I am right and everyone else is doomed to eternal torment. Now please, join my religion and SEND ME MONEY.

I would except I know you're wrong about God and Satan... They're the same dude and therefore have to exist on the same day. I call schism from the dualists.


nope they arent. God is God and He created Lucifer. Who became the Accuser (Satan). And rebelled against mighty God. (the Dragon)


Wow! Lighten up for Christ's sake! It was a JOKE
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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #74 on: February 14, 2009, 02:04:44 AM »

Who do you think makes you think this is so? Lucifer aka Satan.
"the things of the God are foolishness to the things of the flesh."
"and they traded the truth for a lie"
"And God sent them a strong delusion, because they refused the truth but gave themselves to a lie"

Book, Chapter, Verse, please as to better understand the context of the quotes.

Quote
Oh and guess where Christianity came from? Judiasm.

*buzzer* Wrong, it comes more or less from a mixture of Judaism and the Pagan Roman/Greek religions.

Quote
...

You clearly never read beyond your KJV Bible.
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