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Author Topic: Libertarianism and Religion  (Read 36225 times)

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Ecolitan

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2009, 03:51:21 PM »

He didn't like all those assholes though.  He was anti-prostitute stoning.  The Jews of the day... yeah, they sucked.  I don't equate Jesus w/ the bible at all other than they write about him in the new testament but he can't be accused of condoning the new testament because it wasn't written when he was around and he never suggested such a thing should be done.  I don't figure he was overly pro-old testament either for several reasons like when he was asked about the commandments he was all forget that shit just be nice to everyone all the time and you're set. Mark 12:28-34

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Rillion

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2009, 03:52:38 PM »

As soon as a monkey articulates why he has inalienable rights, he will have them. 

I know a LOT of humans who can't articulate why they have inalienable rights.  Should they have them?

But they are human, right.  Can you name one monkey who has spoken up for their rights?

Yes.  Try and take something from a chimpanzee and see what happens. 
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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2009, 03:54:47 PM »

He didn't like all those assholes though.  He was anti-prostitute stoning.  The Jews of the day... yeah, they sucked.  I don't equate Jesus w/ the bible at all other than they write about him in the new testament but he can't be accused of condoning the new testament because it wasn't written when he was around and he never suggested such a thing should be done.  I don't figure he was overly pro-old testament either for several reasons like when he was asked about the commandments he was all forget that shit just be nice to everyone all the time and you're set. Mark 12:28-34



You don't get it, that was the romanticizing of the man. The sect of Jews that he was supposedly a member of were an apocalyptic cult that believed that the end was near and they were to help the new Messiah to rise up and overthrow the pagans across the globe. They were violent little fucks, so that suggests Jesus wasn't any less nutty by implication. So, no, Jesus was never cool. He was a drug addled, pagan hating Jew. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Euler

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2009, 03:56:04 PM »


In essence, every political theory depends upon a metaphysics to justify everything it proposes indirectly, and the metaphysics (ethics, and epistemology) of the vast majority of religions are wholly incompatible with the ethics, epistemology, and metaphysics that justify libertarian political theory. It's just that simple.

So are you saying that a Christian can't by definition be a libertarian?
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Ecolitan

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2009, 03:56:14 PM »

But they are human, right.  Can you name one monkey who has spoken up for their rights?  Cornelius and Zera don't count.

But they are human, right.  Can you name one monkey who has spoken up for their rights?  Cornelius and Zera don't count.

I can't name any off the top of my head but I've seen some non-human primates make it very clear that they didn't think they should be in a cage and they didn't think the people caging them had any right to do so.  They might have been remarkably eloquent in monkey speak, I don't know.

And this:
Yes.  Try and take something from a chimpanzee and see what happens. 

You only make my point for me though.  "But, they are human".  That's correct, it's a religious belief that humans are endowed by the creator with the inalienable rights to life and liberty, even if they're too stupid to know it.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2009, 04:00:28 PM by Ecolitan »
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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2009, 03:56:41 PM »

So are you saying that a Christian can't by definition be a libertarian?

Yes.
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Ecolitan

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2009, 03:58:01 PM »

You don't get it, that was the romanticizing of the man. The sect of Jews that he was supposedly a member of were an apocalyptic cult that believed that the end was near and they were to help the new Messiah to rise up and overthrow the pagans across the globe. They were violent little fucks, so that suggests Jesus wasn't any less nutty by implication. So, no, Jesus was never cool. He was a drug addled, pagan hating Jew. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's possible, all we have is the Bible and guesswork and I don't trust either.
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lspooner

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2009, 03:58:36 PM »

As soon as a monkey articulates why he has inalienable rights, he will have them. 

I know a LOT of humans who can't articulate why they have inalienable rights.  Should they have them?

But they are human, right.  Can you name one monkey who has spoken up for their rights?


Yes.  Try and take something from a chimpanzee and see what happens. 

I've tried to take a bone from a done and he didn't like it.  Does that mean he has rights?
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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2009, 04:00:48 PM »

You don't get it, that was the romanticizing of the man. The sect of Jews that he was supposedly a member of were an apocalyptic cult that believed that the end was near and they were to help the new Messiah to rise up and overthrow the pagans across the globe. They were violent little fucks, so that suggests Jesus wasn't any less nutty by implication. So, no, Jesus was never cool. He was a drug addled, pagan hating Jew. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's possible, all we have is the Bible and guesswork and I don't trust either.

He was probably designed from several sources and accounts as Yoshua ben Yosef sounds like a false name to me. But that's just me.
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Ecolitan

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2009, 04:01:48 PM »

I've tried to take a bone from a done and he didn't like it.  Does that mean he has rights?

Again dude,  you make my point.  No he doesn't because he's not human and that's not a rational position at all.
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Euler

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2009, 04:03:08 PM »

So are you saying that a Christian can't by definition be a libertarian?

Yes.

How do you explain so many self-described Christian libertarians?
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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2009, 04:04:08 PM »

So are you saying that a Christian can't by definition be a libertarian?

Yes.

How do you explain so many self-described Christian libertarians?

Cognitive dissonance. And I should know, being a former Christian who happens to be bisexual and transgendered. I tried to rectify Christianity with the two properties of my person and found there is no doctrine that exists that would justify the properties of my person as moral in the faith. Therefore, I followed logic and rejected Christianity (Primacy of Existence).
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Rillion

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2009, 04:05:48 PM »

As soon as a monkey articulates why he has inalienable rights, he will have them. 

I know a LOT of humans who can't articulate why they have inalienable rights.  Should they have them?

But they are human, right.  Can you name one monkey who has spoken up for their rights?
Yes.  Try and take something from a chimpanzee and see what happens. 

I've tried to take a bone from a done and he didn't like it.  Does that mean he has rights?

Do you mean a dog?  And you didn't ask about who has rights-- you asked about who can speak up for their rights.  If a dog doesn't like you taking his bone, what other explanation is there than that he thinks he has a right to the bone and you're violating it?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2009, 04:09:09 PM by Rillion »
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Ecolitan

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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2009, 04:06:56 PM »

How do you explain so many self-described Christian libertarians?

Either Cognitive Dissonance or they like to think of Jesus they way I like to think of him.  You can't believe in the literal accuracy of the Bible/Torah and be libertarian and be sane though.  That shit don't make no sense.
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Re: Libertarianism and Religion
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2009, 04:07:34 PM »

As soon as a monkey articulates why he has inalienable rights, he will have them. 

I know a LOT of humans who can't articulate why they have inalienable rights.  Should they have them?

But they are human, right.  Can you name one monkey who has spoken up for their rights?
Yes.  Try and take something from a chimpanzee and see what happens. 

I've tried to take a bone from a done and he didn't like it.  Does that mean he has rights?

Do you mean a dog?  And you didn't ask about who has rights-- you asked about who can speak up for their rights.  If a dog doesn't like you taking his bone, what other explanation is there than that he thinks he has a right to the bone and you're violating it? 

Please don't bother explaining to the chap that the conception of rights must have some root in a precognitive function that is shared among similar animals on Earth. It might blow his mind. ;)
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