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Author Topic: Less Stephanie, Please  (Read 149973 times)

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dalebert

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Re: Less Stephanie, Please
« Reply #135 on: November 11, 2011, 01:58:40 PM »

I have a close friend who went through a bad break up with a guy and became a lesbian for about a year until she met another "Mr. Right" and now she's straight again.

Women seem far less hardwired than men. I don't know how much of this is nature (they were born that way, haha) vs. how much more accepting society is of female-on-female affection than male-on-male, therefore it's far less taboo. I suspect there's a lot of the latter. Maybe men will tend to be more bisexual and it will actually be a choice for many more men once society gets over the taboo, and it will. It's just a matter of time. I don't know though. This is just speculation. I don't know how much is nature vs. nurture.

dalebert

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Re: Less Stephanie, Please
« Reply #136 on: November 11, 2011, 02:05:28 PM »

Gay is of course a choice.  So is everything else in life.  Suggesting that it isn't is admitting guilt that what you are doing is wrong but that you aren't at fault because it isn't a choice.

There are lots of things I do that are definitely choices that I don't feel guilty about, and yet they're far more taboo than gay buttsecks, but they don't harm anyone or impede their choices. Did you listen to the fetish episode of FTL? You have a bizarre notion of "wrong". Mine's based on harm.

alaric89

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Re: Less Stephanie, Please
« Reply #137 on: November 11, 2011, 02:07:03 PM »

I have a close friend who went through a bad break up with a guy and became a lesbian for about a year until she met another "Mr. Right" and now she's straight again.

Women seem far less hardwired than men. I don't know how much of this is nature (they were born that way, haha) vs. how much more accepting society is of female-on-female affection than male-on-male, therefore it's far less taboo. I suspect there's a lot of the latter. Maybe men will tend to be more bisexual and it will actually be a choice for many more men once society gets over the taboo, and it will. It's just a matter of time. I don't know though. This is just speculation. I don't know how much is nature vs. nurture.
Why do you hate gays Dale?

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Re: Less Stephanie, Please
« Reply #138 on: November 11, 2011, 03:37:11 PM »

Gay is of course a choice.  So is everything else in life.  Suggesting that it isn't is admitting guilt that what you are doing is wrong but that you aren't at fault because it isn't a choice.

There are lots of things I do that are definitely choices that I don't feel guilty about, and yet they're far more taboo than gay buttsecks, but they don't harm anyone or impede their choices. Did you listen to the fetish episode of FTL? You have a bizarre notion of "wrong". Mine's based on harm.

There are a lot of things one can do that are "wrong" but don't harm anyone.
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alaric89

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Re: Less Stephanie, Please
« Reply #139 on: November 11, 2011, 04:01:50 PM »

 :P Me and the wife have been doing a whole lotta wrong lately. And it is pretty awesome.

dalebert

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Re: Less Stephanie, Please
« Reply #140 on: November 11, 2011, 05:06:45 PM »

There are a lot of things one can do that are "wrong" but don't harm anyone.

That's why I was curious how you derive the meaning of "wrong" if it has nothing to do with causing harm, not even to one's self. I mean, right and wrong are fairly arbitrary notions to begin with, but how arbitrary they are seems to depend on how consistent you are in figuring them out.

Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Less Stephanie, Please
« Reply #141 on: November 11, 2011, 06:18:57 PM »

I have a close friend who went through a bad break up with a guy and became a lesbian for about a year until she met another "Mr. Right" and now she's straight again.

Women seem far less hardwired than men. I don't know how much of this is nature (they were born that way, haha) vs. how much more accepting society is of female-on-female affection than male-on-male, therefore it's far less taboo. I suspect there's a lot of the latter. Maybe men will tend to be more bisexual and it will actually be a choice for many more men once society gets over the taboo, and it will. It's just a matter of time. I don't know though. This is just speculation. I don't know how much is nature vs. nurture.

Maybe it has to do with that scale somebody brought up, and where you fall on that scale can color your view of whether "you're just born that way" or "it was a choice."  For example, I'm exactly 0% homosexual, from what I can tell, but some other guy might be perhaps 30%.  As far as I'm concerned, I'm that way.  The guy who's 30% (and the same place I heard this, apparently women's numbers tend to track higher, like "more bi") gets to choose, and both choices have some merit that can be weighed (aesthetically, I guess.)  For me, I don't really see it as a choice.  A guy who's "100% homosexual" doesn't really see any choice either.  Don't know if that makes sense, exactly, but it's how I imagine it.

There are a lot of things one can do that are "wrong" but don't harm anyone.

That's why I was curious how you derive the meaning of "wrong" if it has nothing to do with causing harm, not even to one's self. I mean, right and wrong are fairly arbitrary notions to begin with, but how arbitrary they are seems to depend on how consistent you are in figuring them out.

I follow you, for the most part.  When my ideas of right and wrong were handed down to me from someone else, there were more arbitrary, and didn't necessarily have anything to do with hurting anyone, using force, threat of force, fraud, etc.  They were a matter of someone else's "law" (not necessarily legislation.)  Now, I equate wrong, so far as I can tell, with nothing other than force, threat of force, or fraud.  Isn't this sorta what the whole NAP business is about--a new basis for ethics?  

People who've read enough Ayn Rand, I'd think, would be somewhat familiar with the idea of morals being exactly equal to right and wrong, and being defined as what's good for the human, both as a person and as a species.  Of course the NAP isn't exactly where she takes it, but the idea that there's a fundamental principle of write and wrong seems necessary to principled libertarians and objectivists, etc.

Sorry if that was sorta scattershot.


Then again...on the NAP and objectivist ethics, you could say something both true and hurtful to someone, and it seems like it could be confused with "wrong," or at least the sort of thing one "shouldn't do."  Clearly, there are things that are not immoral according to those ethics systems could be "really shitty" at best.  Makes you wonder if "being an asshole" is "wrong."
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 06:24:59 PM by What's the frequency, Kenneth? »
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hellbilly

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Re: Less Stephanie, Please
« Reply #142 on: November 11, 2011, 06:38:29 PM »

A friend of mine has a son in grade school. The kid is gifted musically and attends an art school. No one will be surprised in a few more years if he announces he is gay - he already has ultra-feminine mannerisms, which may not be a defining factor but I think it's a realistic indicator. I figure it's his natural condition, he was born that way.

But like the pilot fellow said, I also think it can be a choice for some people.

What if a person is simply a pervert who gets off on all sorts of sex? I don't mean bisexual, I mean flat out perverted. Would that person be considered gay for fucking another fella?
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alaric89

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Re: Less Stephanie, Please
« Reply #143 on: November 12, 2011, 04:08:00 AM »

I try and gag my way through a thread and all the others in the peanut gallery turn the fucking conversation intelligent and serious and I come out looking like a jackass. :shock:

Fine. I think someone who lives by the NAP tends to separate sex and love. Someone could have sexual relations with someone of the same sex in the heat of a moment or for enough cash and still be straight generally.

I mean shit, I'd be gay for a hell of a lot less then 10m (50x200g). And I am pretty sure I would still be straight afterword.
So if you you win the lotto and want some hetero ass, lets talk.

Kelvin

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Re: Less Stephanie, Please
« Reply #144 on: November 12, 2011, 12:54:17 PM »

OK, to the issue of less Stephanie-

Come on, she's usually only on once a week.  And I value her medical knowledge, her soothing voice, and the extra dimension she brings to the discussion.

-K
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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Less Stephanie, Please
« Reply #145 on: November 12, 2011, 01:00:03 PM »

OK, to the issue of less Stephanie-

Come on, she's usually only on once a week.  And I value her medical knowledge, her soothing voice, and the extra dimension she brings to the discussion.

-K

She was on three nights straight.
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dalebert

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Re: Less Stephanie, Please
« Reply #146 on: November 12, 2011, 01:24:42 PM »

She was on three nights straight.

I think that's the 7th sign of the apocalypse!

Turd Ferguson

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Re: Less Stephanie, Please
« Reply #147 on: November 12, 2011, 01:47:49 PM »

OK, to the issue of less Stephanie-

Come on, she's usually only on once a week.  And I value her medical knowledge, her soothing voice, and the extra dimension she brings to the discussion.

-K

She was on three nights straight.

So she was gay on the other nights?
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dalebert

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Re: Less Stephanie, Please
« Reply #148 on: November 12, 2011, 02:29:56 PM »

She was on three nights straight.

So she was gay on the other nights?

Based on where she seems to fall on the Kinsey Scale, that seems about right.

Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Less Stephanie, Please
« Reply #149 on: November 12, 2011, 09:54:46 PM »

She was on three nights straight.

I think that's the 7th sign of the apocalypse!

It was in response to the claim that she's only on once a week.
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