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Author Topic: Law of Attraction  (Read 90915 times)

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Harry Tuttle

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #360 on: February 12, 2009, 02:01:42 AM »

If unfailing believe creates reality then Obama just might be able to engineer us the perfect society.
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lordmetroid

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #361 on: February 14, 2009, 05:43:37 PM »

A believe that morals are objective is the same method of thought as the leftist people has when they believe there is a "fair" price an idea based on the believe that value is objective.
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fatcat

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #362 on: February 14, 2009, 06:46:09 PM »

A believe that morals are objective is the same method of thought as the leftist people has when they believe there is a "fair" price an idea based on the believe that value is objective.

Theres a difference between objectively deduced morals and the concept of objective morals.
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DataLifePlus

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #363 on: February 14, 2009, 07:02:23 PM »

I still believe this can all be settled by asking one simple question, provided that the LoA believers answer the question honestly and without conditions. The question is as follows:

Other than anecdotal evidence, what, if any, proof do you have that this is the way the universe works?
« Last Edit: February 17, 2009, 04:41:22 AM by DataLifePlus »
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gibson042

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #364 on: February 15, 2009, 03:56:54 PM »

I like believing in LoA - I've seen evidence that it's real.  Can I scientifically prove it?  Nope.

So you have seen evidence that you cannot reproduce.  That's some pretty crummy evidence, on par with "evidence" for Russel's teapot.  Why are you so limiting in your acceptance of the Law of Attraction hypothesis over other more likely possibilities, for example that you have in fact witnessed a combination of chance and confirmation bias?

Additionally, no one has dropped their AMP over this controversy.   8)

I have not yet heard the show in question.  I intend to fully catch up by Friday, and will make my decision then... but if it's as bad as I'm thinking, expect my AMP contribution to halve.  Support of this bullshit will turn off the kinds of people that I want to enter the liberty movement.  Also, it will be the Universe's way of misinterpreting your focus on "DON'T DROP AMP".
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DataLifePlus

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #365 on: February 17, 2009, 04:35:11 AM »

Here's something I find interesting. When discussing LoA on the BBS back in September, Ian had this to say:

I have intended certain unlikely things to happen as "tests", fully prepared to never see them occur (yes, that skeptical voice still yells at me in my head), but then they do.  They are things that would be semi to unlikely to occur, but they do, and I'm quite surprised and pleased by them when they do.

So Ian was "intending on certain unlikely things to happen" but was at the same time "fully prepared to never see them occur" and thinking skeptically about it, yet they supposedly did occur.

Everything that Ian, Sam, and Mark have said about LoA on the show would lead me to believe that in this circumstance Ian should not have seen these things occur since, in fact, he was prepared for them to not happen. Shouldn't Ian's intention and concurrent certainty that it would not happen have "canceled" each other out, and nothing would have happened?
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DanPatrick

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #366 on: February 17, 2009, 01:25:05 PM »

Here's something I find interesting. When discussing LoA on the BBS back in September, Ian had this to say:

I have intended certain unlikely things to happen as "tests", fully prepared to never see them occur (yes, that skeptical voice still yells at me in my head), but then they do.  They are things that would be semi to unlikely to occur, but they do, and I'm quite surprised and pleased by them when they do.

So Ian was "intending on certain unlikely things to happen" but was at the same time "fully prepared to never see them occur" and thinking skeptically about it, yet they supposedly did occur.

Everything that Ian, Sam, and Mark have said about LoA on the show would lead me to believe that in this circumstance Ian should not have seen these things occur since, in fact, he was prepared for them to not happen. Shouldn't Ian's intention and concurrent certainty that it would not happen have "canceled" each other out, and nothing would have happened?

Good points!  Further proof that Law of Attraction is bullshit!

I'm certain that this will trigger some serious cognitive dissonance and result in yet another poorly thought out and ill-reasoned "explanation".
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Dylboz

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #367 on: February 17, 2009, 02:57:27 PM »

Yeah, that's an example of an anecdote offered in support of LoA that is actually completely incoherent and contravenes the supposed mechanism by which the "Universe" acts on your desires. I mean, it hurts my brain to even discuss this stuff, because it is just insanely convoluted and self-contradictory and logically inconsistent. You can try and make a point by seizing upon one explanation or purported tenet of the "Law of Attraction," but this so called law isn't even based on a coherent theory, so the LoAer just shifts the goal posts or offers some other flowery treacle in lieu of an actual explanation. Or, there's the inevitable resort to solipsism, or the emotional appeal, like "it works for me," or "it's empowering," etc. So, when I an says he's "seen it work," that doesn't even really mean anything. Seen what, exactly? Working how? By what mechanism? In what order?  Exactly who's desires are being manifested? How are the conflicting desires of multiple LoA practitioners resolved by the"Universe," or the "all-god" or whatever Ian is calling it? Can these vibrations be manifested on the other side of the planet, or only within the immediate proximity of the LoAer?

Many, many times in my life, I have wished something would happen or thought it might be nice, and lo and behold, it went down, just like I imagined. Does that mean I've been inadvertently using the LoA? Or does it just mean, as Randi and others have repeatedly demonstrated, the human mind evolved to retain information about positive correlation and discard information on incongruities and negative correlation as a survival strategy, and as such, I don't really remember (because there isn't enough space in my brain for it) all the many more times that stuff happened completely different than I imagined it would or wished it might? I think the latter far more likely than the former. Cold reading psychics, Tarot card readers, etc. all use this fact about the human mind to bilk money from their unsuspecting  customers. Is what they do fraud, or are they just providing the dupes who patronize them with the "empowerment" that comes from a false belief in the ability to read the future? How is that different than the LoA belief in controlling the future of the entire "Universe" with your thoughts, as if it were a remote control car? Or the feeling of happiness you get from knowing that you'll be spending eternity at the right hand of that bearded hippy from the middle east named Jesus, thanks to his death on a Roman cross?

We reason out our best approximations of how reality actually works using logic and evidence gathered by our senses, but we don't just stop there. That data is rigorously analyzed according to consistent principles derived from the scientific method. This basic process has given us profoundly useful knowledge in innumerable ways. When that knowledge leads us to philosophically uncomfortable or emotionally disconcerting conclusions about our relationship to each other and the greater world outside ourselves, for instance, the fact that we are not actually THE center of the universe, either individually or as a species (or even a planet), and that our powers to control reality, while impressive, are not absolute or even sufficient to end war and hunger or win the love of the hot cheerleader in Sociology 101, we do not simply pitch it overboard for something more "empowering." Unless we do. And then we sound pretty lame bitching about people "raining on our parade," despite the fact that if the "Universe" worked the way we said it did, there would be no rain on anyone's parade.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2009, 09:47:46 PM by Dylboz »
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DanPatrick

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #368 on: February 17, 2009, 09:17:08 PM »

I have been listening to the show much less.
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gibson042

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #369 on: February 20, 2009, 04:28:12 PM »

I have not yet heard the show in question.  I intend to fully catch up by Friday, and will make my decision then... but if it's as bad as I'm thinking, expect my AMP contribution to halve.  Support of this bullshit will turn off the kinds of people that I want to enter the liberty movement.  Also, it will be the Universe's way of misinterpreting your focus on "DON'T DROP AMP".

Having now listened, the episode wasn't as bad as I feared, although I was disgusted by Sam's take on unprovoked violence.  And this topic hasn't taken over the show, so it's still worth supporting.
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mikehz

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #370 on: February 22, 2009, 09:54:48 AM »

I have been listening to the show much less.

They've burned the topic out; you can start listening again.
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Rillion

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #371 on: February 22, 2009, 11:27:08 AM »

[youtube=425,350]ujUQn0HhGEk&[/youtube]

Oh my.  This is a bit of beat poetry by Australian comic (and skeptic) Tim Minchin about encountering a woman at a party who subscribes to every bit of supernatural New Age magic hoo ha there is...and the resulting conversation.  It's over nine minutes and sound-only, but absolutely priceless. 
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Walnut

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #372 on: February 22, 2009, 10:28:58 PM »

The "law of attraction" view of the universe makes absolutely no difference except that it makes Mark and Ian feel not so terribly alone in the universe (which they, of course, are). It doesn't make more good things happen for them than normal, because in the real world taking positive action has as a natural consequence a tendency to achieve what you want. It doesn't make bad things happen less because then they "learn something." Now, if a car hits you and you die before realizing what happened, I don't know what that teaches you. Maybe, look both ways? But anyway, it's not a harmful ideology, except that it makes you ignorant, but it doesn't give you evil opinions like hating homosexuals or women who have sex. It's just like Ian's pantheism. It's completely meaningless, it just stops him from having an existensial crisis.
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freeAgent

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #373 on: February 22, 2009, 10:46:08 PM »

Today I used the law of attraction to do my laundry.  I envisioned my clean laundry really, really hard.  Then I thought about what I would need to do to make that happen.  As if by magic, I found myself gathering my dirty clothes, cleaning them, and then folding them.  But no, my friends, this was no magic.  This was the law of attraction.
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Dylboz

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #374 on: February 22, 2009, 11:16:17 PM »

Sam is a scary guru. What he said in that show, oh, man, my skin crawled. And he was just full of contradictions, yet so quick to angrily tell the callers to stop, to shout over them, "we let you talk," etc. And that whole bit about "which book?" Because he is THE authority on hoe the Universe works and which books explain it, apparently. As if the entire fate of the Universe depends on which book you read. :roll:

Rape? Violence? Car accidents? All these are the result of your own unconscious desires, which the Universe knows from listening to your thoughts, even if you don't remember thinking them. Wow. Kids learn a valuable lesson from cancer. It's all about your "interpretation." Well, we should all be happy that North Koreans are being horribly oppressed, after all, they must have secretly wanted to be starved, tortured, worked to death, etc. because the Universe always says yes (leukemia and horrific oppression are just positive learning experiences if you interpret them right)! I interpret that millions of people were just put in a country where the Universe would supply them with the murderous regime they needed, so they could become the victims their killers had asked the Universe to provide them.

Because the LoA isn't about judgement! It knows the difference between positive and negative, between yes and no, between what you think you want or need, and what you actually, secretly require (ostensibly through your "vibrations"). Oh, but those aren't judgments, no! And never mind how obviously conflicting desires get resolved by the Universal All-God, or the contradiction of Sam saying that you are 100% responsible for everything and that you control your reality, yet you can use LoA to make a change in the attitude, behavior and understanding of others around you, so actually, they aren't 100% in control of their reality, because you just LoAed their minds up for them, but then maybe they were unconsciously attracting your vibrations to alter their state of mind, so they wanted it, or maybe other people are just objects in the Universe, there to fulfill your desires and respond to your vibrations, as long as you formulate them positively, oh but then there's the 6 billion other remote controls and, and, and....

AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH FFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCKKK MMMMEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!


Whoops, my BULLSHIT limit was just exceeded. Sam is insane, and he has led Ian and Mark astray. Well, at least Ian, Mark was pretty hopeless already. Oh, but "it's empowering."
« Last Edit: February 22, 2009, 11:27:15 PM by Dylboz »
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Religion is metaphysical statism. I will be ruled by no man on earth, nor by any god in heaven.

Please check out my blog!
Dylboznia
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