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Author Topic: Law of Attraction  (Read 90522 times)

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The ghost of a ghost of a ghost

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #285 on: February 09, 2009, 11:24:51 AM »

I don't mean to bust balls, and it’s nothing personal.  I hold your opinions very highly.  I have you on 'high on the pedestal' so to speak.  I admit I was very disappointed to hear you fell for the LoA thing, but if it makes you happy, that's cool.  I guess the message of liberty can stand on its own separate your religious beliefs; I just want my hero back.  That’s all.  I'm going to keep willing for you to come around to reason.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 12:00:10 PM by parcgreene »
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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #286 on: February 09, 2009, 11:32:33 AM »

Finally, in regards to credibility, do you really believe that the message of liberty cannot stand on its own as credible separate from the communicator's religious beliefs?

Not if the foundation for your valuation of personal liberty is set upon the Law of Attraction. If you take a false premise and make a correct conclusion, the argument that comes to the correct conclusion is still wrong.
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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #287 on: February 09, 2009, 11:58:10 AM »

Additionally, no one has dropped their AMP over this controversy.   8)

I certainly would not. Religion is not a deal-breaker for me. After all, I'm married to a Catholic!
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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #288 on: February 09, 2009, 12:04:59 PM »

Ian, you should imagine how you would feel if after a few weeks in the volunteer fire department, Mark came back and said, "to hell with the FSP and liberty, I am running for the state legislature as a staunch conservative Republican, we'll get those shiny new fire engines, and some new police cars to boot, we'll just borrow the money, sell some bonds and then we can put some law and order down on these loony liberty activists!" He'd sound pretty empowered. In fact, I'm sure that having the resources of the state behind you is very empowering, but it ain't right. Well, that's how a bunch of us view this sudden embrace of silly hocus pocus.

You've thrown away rigorous rational analysis and a coherent world view that formed the basis of your excellent conclusions for some touchy feely garbage that gives you an Oprah style feeling of empowerment, and you've lost a lot of credibility in the process. If you can just change your mind based on nothing more than a feeling of something as amorphous as "empowerment," than what's to stop you just up and deciding to go all statist? I mean, if it's all just about what feels good and what's empowering, maybe when you get sick of getting the shaft from the state, you'll just throw up your hands and say, "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em!"

It probably feels pretty good to those cops who strut around in their uniforms, getting chicks and all the unearned respect that comes with the badge. I'm sure they have a tremendous sense of power, I mean, we've all seen that in terrifying action, haven't we? I mean, if that's your guide, feeling all empowered and shit, then why not? If they feel better believing in the legitimacy of the state and enjoying the power it gives them than they would have otherwise, by your standard, they should absolutely do that. They'll wind up in a room with someone who wants to be violently interrogated anyway, since that's the way the universe works, right?
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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #289 on: February 09, 2009, 12:05:48 PM »

I like believing that I'm part of all-that-is, (or if you like, god) - it's far more empowering than my old atheistic belief system.

Nothing has made me feel more part of all-that-is than knowing that I'm made according to the same recipe as every other living organism on the planet, part of an ever-expanding tree of life, equipped with a brain built by evolution to think and feel and interact with the rest of the natural world in a self-conscious and reflective way, even to the point of contemplating my own existence and the significance of its beginning and end, and my power to affect and be affected by everything else that exists up to and including objects light years away. 

Yeah, that whole "atheistic belief system" thing is such a downer.   :roll:
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #290 on: February 09, 2009, 12:12:47 PM »

I'd say that's a far more positive view than many atheists have, Rillion.  Well said.
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #291 on: February 09, 2009, 12:16:11 PM »

You've thrown away rigorous rational analysis and a coherent world view that formed the basis of your excellent conclusions for some touchy feely garbage that gives you an Oprah style feeling of empowerment, and you've lost a lot of credibility in the process. If you can just change your mind based on nothing more than a feeling of something as amorphous as "empowerment," than what's to stop you just up and deciding to go all statist?

Hrm, maybe the fact that I believe hurting others is wrong?  Perhaps because I believe in allowing others to be free so I can be as well? 

Quote
I mean, if it's all just about what feels good and what's empowering, maybe when you get sick of getting the shaft from the state, you'll just throw up your hands and say, "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em!"

If you really believe I could do such a thing, you've just lost your credibility!   :lol:
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Dylboz

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #292 on: February 09, 2009, 12:16:44 PM »

I'd say that's a far more positive view than many atheists have, Rillion.  Well said.

In my experience, it is a pretty common one, especially among scientists or the scientifically literate. Learning about the reality of the universe from galaxies down to quarks has a way of instilling awe and gratitude for all existence, and especially your own. That awe still doesn't make me wanna go all religious.
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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #293 on: February 09, 2009, 12:17:55 PM »

You've thrown away rigorous rational analysis and a coherent world view that formed the basis of your excellent conclusions for some touchy feely garbage that gives you an Oprah style feeling of empowerment, and you've lost a lot of credibility in the process. If you can just change your mind based on nothing more than a feeling of something as amorphous as "empowerment," than what's to stop you just up and deciding to go all statist?

Hrm, maybe the fact that I believe hurting others is wrong?  Perhaps because I believe in allowing others to be free so I can be as well? 

Quote
I mean, if it's all just about what feels good and what's empowering, maybe when you get sick of getting the shaft from the state, you'll just throw up your hands and say, "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em!"

If you really believe I could do such a thing, you've just lost your credibility!   :lol:

But why, Ian? You've already demonstrated an ability to eschew your principles in favor of what feels good and empowering, without any good reason or logical argument to justify it! All you say is "I do what I want, 'cause it feels good! You don't know me! I ain't here for you..."
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #294 on: February 09, 2009, 12:18:13 PM »

Finally, in regards to credibility, do you really believe that the message of liberty cannot stand on its own as credible separate from the communicator's religious beliefs?

Not if the foundation for your valuation of personal liberty is set upon the Law of Attraction. If you take a false premise and make a correct conclusion, the argument that comes to the correct conclusion is still wrong.

Why would that be the foundation?  The foundation for my belief in liberty is my life experience and the morality I've developed based on it.  LoA is just an observation of how the universe works.  One is not founded from another.
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #295 on: February 09, 2009, 12:19:30 PM »

But why, Ian? You've already demonstrated an ability to eschew your principles in favor of what feels good and empowering!

To what principles are you referring?
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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #296 on: February 09, 2009, 12:25:05 PM »

I don't mean to bust balls, and it’s nothing personal.  I hold your opinions very highly.  I have you on 'high on the pedestal' so to speak.  I admit I was very disappointed to hear you fell for the LoA thing, but if it makes you happy, that's cool.  I guess the message of liberty can stand on its own separate your religious beliefs; I just want my hero back.  That’s all.  I'm going to keep willing for you to come around to reason.

When you say "come around to reason", you mean to say you want me to be more like you, so you can feel better.  Take me off your pedestal and go be your own hero.   :P
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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #297 on: February 09, 2009, 12:26:30 PM »

A rational world view, empiricism, the material basis for the universe, rejecting stories about supernatural sky fairies that grants wishes, etc. And by subscribing to this Secret crap, you actually have embraced an amoral, anti-rights philosophy, since the universe is delivering to people exactly what they want, so even when most libertarians would recognize a rights violation, Sam says they are getting what they want and/or deserve, since they either wanted it to happen, or did nothing to prevent it. That ain't any kind of libertarianism with which I am familiar.

It is a kind of materialistic hedonistic nihilism.
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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #298 on: February 09, 2009, 12:29:58 PM »

A rational world view, empiricism, the material basis for the universe, rejecting stories about supernatural sky fairies that grants wishes, etc. And by subscribing to this Secret crap, you actually have embraced an amoral, anti-rights philosophy, since the universe is delivering to people exactly what they want, so even when most libertarians would recognize a rights violation, Sam says they are getting what they want and/or deserve, since they either wanted it to happen, or did nothing to prevent it. That ain't any kind of libertarianism with which I am familiar.

It is a kind of materialistic hedonistic nihilism.

Nope, it's original sin in a different but just as stupid wrapping.
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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #299 on: February 09, 2009, 12:33:31 PM »

I don't mean to bust balls, and it’s nothing personal.  I hold your opinions very highly.  I have you on 'high on the pedestal' so to speak.  I admit I was very disappointed to hear you fell for the LoA thing, but if it makes you happy, that's cool.  I guess the message of liberty can stand on its own separate your religious beliefs; I just want my hero back.  That’s all.  I'm going to keep willing for you to come around to reason.

When you say "come around to reason", you mean to say you want me to be more like you, so you can feel better.  Take me off your pedestal and go be your own hero.   :P

I was about to say to myself "What balls!  Pedestal?  Hero?  Feh!"...and then I read the comment you were replying to.   :)

Yeah, parcgreene.....not a good idea to idolize anyone, including talk show hosts.  All of your heroes will turn out to have feet of clay eventually. 
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