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Author Topic: Law of Attraction  (Read 90554 times)

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FTL_Ian

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #150 on: February 04, 2009, 08:34:12 AM »

Seriously, guys.  Will you all just stop with this non-sense?  Could you at least have a skeptic on that will use something like, I dunno, science to address this issue?  Penn & Teller would be so disappointed.

Is it possible you're wrong, and LoA is real?  Is is possible that your intentions and beliefs create your reality?  Is it possible the universe will line up the exact series of events and people necessary for you to create what you want in life?  Provided you open the doors and take the opportunities, of course.
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DanPatrick

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #151 on: February 04, 2009, 08:39:03 AM »

Seriously, guys.  Will you all just stop with this non-sense?  Could you at least have a skeptic on that will use something like, I dunno, science to address this issue?  Penn & Teller would be so disappointed.

Is it possible you're wrong, and LoA is real?  Is is possible that your intentions and beliefs create your reality?  Is it possible the universe will line up the exact series of events and people necessary for you to create what you want in life?  Provided you open the doors and take the opportunities, of course.


It is possible that there are tiny unicorns in the trunk of my car that disappear when I open the lid to have a look at them, but there is no scientific evidence for their existence.  I don't believe in things based on what is possible.  I believe in things based on evidence, reason, and proof.
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #152 on: February 04, 2009, 08:50:01 AM »

I hope this is sarcasm.  Because calling for people to use logic, reason, and science to back up their claims is SOOOOO "less-than-positive", right?  If the guys are going to believe in this shit then they had better start entertaining every single chemtrail, 9/11 truth, trilateral commission, lizard people conspiracy nut job that calls in because all of those things are just as plausible as silly-ass wishing on a star Law of Attraction.

Really?  Those are all conspiracy theories - limited, destructive beliefs. 

Pantheism is much bigger than LoA.  LoA is only one aspect.  Pantheism says that we are all-that-is.  We are part of the universe becoming self-aware and constantly discovering and deciding individually who we really are.  You can call all-that-is "God" if you like.  So, believing we are all "god" is anything but a limiting belief.  When I was an Atheist I was empowered by rejecting an external supreme being and instead embracing myself and my own "authority".  Atheism allowed me to create my own morality based upon my life experience.  Discovering Pantheism was my next logical step into personal empowerment, for instead of believing there is no god, I believe we all are part of all-that-is.  We're all gods, creating our own "heaven" or "hell" right here on Earth and discovering and creating ourselves in the process.  You get the experiences you choose, delivered to you by the universe, exactly how you intended it.
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #153 on: February 04, 2009, 08:54:18 AM »

I don't believe in things based on what is possible.  I believe in things based on evidence, reason, and proof.

My belief system expands my possibilities, and yours limits. 

Perhaps someday science will find incontrovertible proof of LoA.  Until then, I'll keep using LoA to improve my life, because based on the evidence I've seen in my life, it's absolutely real.
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Rillion

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #154 on: February 04, 2009, 08:55:59 AM »

Is it possible you're wrong, and LoA is real? 

Yes, but less possible than that the 9/11 attacks were entirely designed, orchestrated, and implemented by the U.S. government.*  It would be nice to see you bring a fraction of the skepticism that you have for 9/11 truthers to these claims about vibrations and what the universe wants for you. 

Also, please listen to this sometime:  http://www.logicallycritical.net/podcast/23%20Secretly_%20Unimaginatively%20Selfish.mp3

*though most likely, both are absolute bullshit

Pantheism is much bigger than LoA.  LoA is only one aspect.  Pantheism says that we are all-that-is.  We are part of the universe becoming self-aware and constantly discovering and deciding individually who we really are. 

Actually, pantheism is simply the belief that the universe is God.  There is nothing about pantheism that requires a person to believe in the law of attraction.  It is entirely possible to be a secular humanist pantheist. 

Quote
When I was an Atheist I was empowered by rejecting an external supreme being and instead embracing myself and my own "authority".  Atheism allowed me to create my own morality based upon my life experience.  Discovering Pantheism was my next logical step into personal empowerment, for instead of believing there is no god, I believe we all are part of all-that-is.  We're all gods, creating our own "heaven" or "hell" right here on Earth and discovering and creating ourselves in the process.  You get the experiences you choose, delivered to you by the universe, exactly how you intended it.

So basically, being an atheist was dissatisfying because it meant that you couldn't believe in New Age nonsense, whereas pantheism rectifies that by seeming to give New Age nonsense free reign.  Congratulations. 

Here's a thought: How about forming a view of existence based on what is true, rather than what messages you would prefer to receive from it? 
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 08:58:52 AM by Rillion »
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DanPatrick

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #155 on: February 04, 2009, 08:58:48 AM »

I hope this is sarcasm.  Because calling for people to use logic, reason, and science to back up their claims is SOOOOO "less-than-positive", right?  If the guys are going to believe in this shit then they had better start entertaining every single chemtrail, 9/11 truth, trilateral commission, lizard people conspiracy nut job that calls in because all of those things are just as plausible as silly-ass wishing on a star Law of Attraction.

Really?  Those are all conspiracy theories - limited, destructive beliefs. 

Pantheism is much bigger than LoA.  LoA is only one aspect.  Pantheism says that we are all-that-is.  We are part of the universe becoming self-aware and constantly discovering and deciding individually who we really are.  You can call all-that-is "God" if you like.  So, believing we are all "god" is anything but a limiting belief.  When I was an Atheist I was empowered by rejecting an external supreme being and instead embracing myself and my own "authority".  Atheism allowed me to create my own morality based upon my life experience.  Discovering Pantheism was my next logical step into personal empowerment, for instead of believing there is no god, I believe we all are part of all-that-is.  We're all gods, creating our own "heaven" or "hell" right here on Earth and discovering and creating ourselves in the process.  You get the experiences you choose, delivered to you by the universe, exactly how you intended it.

See, Ian, that seems perfectly reasonable.  This is the hook that LoA advocates use.  No one will deny the "birds of a feather" aspect.  After all, we all desire greater liberty and here we are "attracting" like-minded people to make our desires reality.  Yet, as soon as you start thinking how reasonable it all sounds the LoA advocate starts talking about think like how the "universe only responds to positives and if you think 'I don't want to fall into that ditch' the universe perceives 'WANT FALL DITCH' and you've fallen into a ditch as a result of your negative thinking".

Why can't you respond to these criticisms with some actual scientific evidence or proof of this supposedly universal law?  Why doesn't an LoA advocate take the James Randi Education Foundation $1,000,000 Challenge? http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html
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DanPatrick

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #156 on: February 04, 2009, 09:00:32 AM »

I don't believe in things based on what is possible.  I believe in things based on evidence, reason, and proof.

My belief system expands my possibilities, and yours limits. 

Perhaps someday science will find incontrovertible proof of LoA.  Until then, I'll keep using LoA to improve my life, because based on the evidence I've seen in my life, it's absolutely real.

Yeah, my belief in gravity limits my possibility to fly.  I'm such a Negative Nancy.
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #157 on: February 04, 2009, 09:04:55 AM »

Actually, pantheism is simply the belief that the universe is God.  There is nothing about pantheism that requires a person to believe in the law of attraction.  It is entirely possible to be a secular humanist pantheist. 

That's true.  LoA is simply an observation of the working of that universe.  Certainly an unscientific observation.

Quote
So basically, being an atheist was dissatisfying because it meant that you couldn't believe in New Age nonsense, whereas pantheism rectifies that by seeming to give New Age nonsense free reign.  Congratulations. 

No, being an Atheist was never dissatisfying.  Pantheism is simply more satisfying.

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Here's a thought: How about forming a view of existence based on what is true, rather than what messages you would prefer to receive from it? 

LoA is true for me.  I declare it so based upon my experience.
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #158 on: February 04, 2009, 09:11:07 AM »

Yet, as soon as you start thinking how reasonable it all sounds the LoA advocate starts talking about think like how the "universe only responds to positives and if you think 'I don't want to fall into that ditch' the universe perceives 'WANT FALL DITCH' and you've fallen into a ditch as a result of your negative thinking".

Did anyone say LoA will cancel out the other laws of nature?  Surely you can come up with a better objection on this one.

Quote
Why can't you respond to these criticisms with some actual scientific evidence or proof of this supposedly universal law?  Why doesn't an LoA advocate take the James Randi Education Foundation $1,000,000 Challenge? http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

First, I'm not a scientist. Second, there is no reason to. It is true for me and that is all that concerns me.  I'd rather earn my first million by providing a useful product or service to the market instead of trying to convince skeptics of LoA.   :lol:
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 09:13:35 AM by FTL_Ian »
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #159 on: February 04, 2009, 09:13:02 AM »

Yeah, my belief in gravity limits my possibility to fly.  I'm such a Negative Nancy.

Your beliefs do not override the laws of nature, including the unscientific Law of Attraction.  LoA is working for you whether you believe it or not.  Just as gravity will work on you whether you believe it or not.
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DanPatrick

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #160 on: February 04, 2009, 09:13:24 AM »

LoA is true for me.  I declare it so based upon my experience.

Sorry, you're living in La La Land.  You don't get to decide what is and isn't true.  There's an objective reality.  If you want to believe in fairies, vibrations, elves, and unicorns you go right ahead but while you're living in a world of "limitless possibilities" there will be a real world that exists independent of your folly.

My parents believe that the Holy Ghost lives inside them and gives them super powers like healing the sick, divine revelations, snake handling.  It's very real for them.  They declare it to be so in their lives and they claim that they and others have been healed by God by putting their hands on them.  However, no matter how real that belief is and how real their religious experience they either ARE divine lighting rods or they ARE NOT.  Since none of their beliefs stand up to scientific testing or any other measures that we have for quantifying reality, however, there's a considerably good change that they are completely delusional.

I have yet to see any evidence that you aren't as well.
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #161 on: February 04, 2009, 09:18:29 AM »

I absolutely may decide what is and isn't true for me, just as you decide for yourself!   :lol:
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 09:20:11 AM by FTL_Ian »
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DanPatrick

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #162 on: February 04, 2009, 09:18:54 AM »

Yet, as soon as you start thinking how reasonable it all sounds the LoA advocate starts talking about think like how the "universe only responds to positives and if you think 'I don't want to fall into that ditch' the universe perceives 'WANT FALL DITCH' and you've fallen into a ditch as a result of your negative thinking".

Did anyone say LoA will cancel out the other laws of nature?  Surely you can come up with a better objection on this one.

Quote
Why can't you respond to these criticisms with some actual scientific evidence or proof of this supposedly universal law?  Why doesn't an LoA advocate take the James Randi Education Foundation $1,000,000 Challenge? http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

First, I'm not a scientist. Second, there is no reason to. It is true for me and that is all that concerns me.  I'd rather earn my first million by providing a useful product or service to the market instead of trying to convince skeptics of LoA.   :lol:

Ah, ok.  See, I didn't realize that one had to be a scientist to know whether something was real or make believe.

Oh, so you could prove that LoA exists and get $1 million dollars you're just choosing not to.  That makes perfect sense.  I've actually encountered that before.  In 3rd grade I knew a kid that claimed he could do a triple back flip, but when I asked him to show me he just said he didn't want to.
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #163 on: February 04, 2009, 09:21:29 AM »

I'm not sure how I would prove it scientifically - because I'm not a scientist.  So I'll keep doing what I do best, instead.   :P
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Rillion

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #164 on: February 04, 2009, 09:21:53 AM »

That's true.  LoA is simply an observation of the working of that universe.  Certainly an unscientific observation.

Are you kidding?  Observations of the working of the universe are absolutely scientific-- that is, they are empirical statements that can be scientifically tested.  If the LoA is actually true, then it is testable.  Are there any experiments which have supported the conclusion that the LoA is true?  None that I know of.  Hmm, wonder why that is?  

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LoA is true for me.  I declare it so based upon my experience.

Plenty of people will testify that that snake-handling, speaking in tongues, or fortune telling is "true for them" as well, based on their experience.  The fact is, what you consider "true for you" and what is objectively true are two very different things.  If a practice depends that you buy into its mythology in order for it to have the desired effect, that's a big red glowing neon sign that you could just as easily be using a placebo.  "The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact than a drunken man is happier than a sober one."

Ideological atheists or pantheists are no better than people who insist that evolution is false because it "makes people think they're animals" or "turns them into nihilists."  The concern is not for what is actually true or false, but what sounds better according to their mindset.  Such people are welcome to believe whatever they want, but when it comes to telling the rest of us what is true or not true.....please don't bother.  Truth is not your primary concern, and what you say is therefore not a primary concern for those who want truth.  
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