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Author Topic: Law of Attraction  (Read 82309 times)

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DogOn

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #60 on: May 22, 2008, 11:35:26 AM »

Positive thinking doesn't change or create reality,  (only taking the necessary action to attain your goals does).

Science disagrees with you

Also there are plenty of studies showing a link between people who are depressed being ill more or dying from disease more often.

Now what you think doesn't effect external reality, but it can alter your behavior in subtle ways that can make people react better to you and alter your physiology for better or worse. You don't think stress has any relationship to physical health?

I can't be bothered actually digging up some studies that back up what im saying but I'm sure some more motivated/better informed person can do it for me.
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LordMarius

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #61 on: May 22, 2008, 12:17:28 PM »

Positive thinking doesn't change or create reality,  (only taking the necessary action to attain your goals does).

Science disagrees with you

Also there are plenty of studies showing a link between people who are depressed being ill more or dying from disease more often.

Now what you think doesn't effect external reality, but it can alter your behavior in subtle ways that can make people react better to you and alter your physiology for better or worse. You don't think stress has any relationship to physical health?

I can't be bothered actually digging up some studies that back up what im saying but I'm sure some more motivated/better informed person can do it for me.

I'm highly motivated, and this motivation has by pure magic alone materialised a German study that shows the placebo effect in all it's glory. The study was done on 1.200 people with back problems. One group was treated with conventional medicine and physical exercise, one group with "real" acupuncture, and one group with "fake" acupuncture. Both the "real" and "fake" acupuncture proved more effective than the real medical treatment.
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client101

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #62 on: June 19, 2008, 09:31:11 AM »

I'll start off by saying that I love the show, but just like the original creator of this thread, I really start to cringe any time Ian goes off on the "Law of Attraction". Lets define the "Law of Attraction" right at the beginning so there's no confusion as to what I'm talking about.

"the Law of Attraction takes the idea that "Like Attracts Like" and applies it to conscious desire. That is, a person's thoughts (conscious and unconscious), emotions, and beliefs cause a change in the physical world that attracts positive or negative experiences that correspond to the aforementioned thoughts, with or without the person taking action to attain such experiences."

Did you catch the "without the person taking action" part????!?! They quite literally think that all you have to do is think about something long enough, pretend you want something enough and it will manifest itself in your life without you taking ANY physical measures to obtain it.

I'm in 100% agreement that focusing on a goal and keep positive about that goals, never giving up, is the most sure fire way to obtain a goal, but not without physical measures being taken to obtain it. That focus and positivity will make you more likely to make decision that will cause you to move closer to you goals and desires. Like does not attracted like! You must work for the thing you desire! They do not just fall into your lap!

I've heard people say, "What's the problem with thinking positively and following the law of attraction?" The problem is it's a distraction. It's someone telling you that you can have something just by wanting it enough. Are you telling me that the people dieing from cancer don't want a cure enough? That the victims of the holocaust just didn't want to live enough? That the good people that dieded in any genocide somehow attracted the genocide to them?!? That's patently wrong and disgusting!

Replace "the universe" with god and replace "wanting/thinking" with praying. All the law of attraction says is "God will answer your prayers."

Sorry if this dragged on, but this law of attraction bullshit really really gets me fired up.
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Taors

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #63 on: June 19, 2008, 10:03:31 AM »

Yeah, that's one of the things that I don't really like about the LoA. In magick, you have to take some kind of action (will-power) in order to manifest what you want in this reality (desire). The rituals, sigils, and tools  that are used in magickal practices (such as those practiced by the Golden Dawn occultists) are just things to get the magician in the right state of mind to perform magickal works. The Law of Attraction doesn't seem to combine will-power AND desire, it just seems to really harp on desire without taking any kind of real action necessary to obtain your goals.

While creative visualization does work, it's a little more than just thinking positive.
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John Shaw

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #64 on: June 19, 2008, 10:07:35 AM »

I think Burgess Meredeth covered the whole LOA.

"Well, you can wish in one hand, and crap in the other, see which gets filled first."

LOA is magical thinking.

[youtube=425,350]RV-p51fvYLc[/youtube]

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"btw its not a claim. Its documented fact."

Taors

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #65 on: June 19, 2008, 10:09:06 AM »

I think Burgess Meredeth covered the whole LOA.

"Well, you can wish in one hand, and crap in the other, see which gets filled first."

LOA is magical thinking.

[youtube=425,350]RV-p51fvYLc[/youtube]



It may be magickal thinking, but it lacks a lot of the concepts that make magick what it is. If you're using magic in the paranormal sense, then nevermind.
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John Shaw

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #66 on: June 19, 2008, 10:11:56 AM »

It may be magickal thinking, but it lacks a lot of the concepts that make magick what it is. If you're using magic in the paranormal sense, then nevermind.

I'm using magic in the paranormal sense. Not the "Manipulation that requires both the perpetrator and target to believe for it to work." sense.

Quote
In anthropology, psychology, and cognitive science, magical thinking is nonscientific causal reasoning that often includes such ideas as the ability of the mind to affect the physical world, correlation equaling causation, the law of contagion, the power of symbols, and the meaningfulness of synchronicity.

That's what I mean.
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"btw its not a claim. Its documented fact."

Taors

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #67 on: June 19, 2008, 10:13:12 AM »

It may be magickal thinking, but it lacks a lot of the concepts that make magick what it is. If you're using magic in the paranormal sense, then nevermind.

I'm using magic in the paranormal sense. Not the "Manipulation that requires both the perpetrator and target to believe for it to work." sense.

Quote
In anthropology, psychology, and cognitive science, magical thinking is nonscientific causal reasoning that often includes such ideas as the ability of the mind to affect the physical world, correlation equaling causation, the law of contagion, the power of symbols, and the meaningfulness of synchronicity.

That's what I mean.

Gotcha.
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John Shaw

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #68 on: June 19, 2008, 10:17:35 AM »

Gotcha.

It's just a more polite way to say that LOA is a load of hooey.

It also about the furthest thing from "Law" in the scientific sense that you can come up with.

Should be "The Faith of Attraction."
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"btw its not a claim. Its documented fact."

BonerJoe

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #69 on: June 19, 2008, 10:20:22 AM »

Should be "The Faith of Attraction."

More like "I just ripped you off for $20 telling you something you've heard since childhood".
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John Shaw

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #70 on: June 19, 2008, 10:30:26 AM »

More like "I just ripped you off for $20 telling you that Emmanuel Kant riddled horseshit we've been bombarded with since the 1700's".

Adjusted for accuracy.

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"btw its not a claim. Its documented fact."

BonerJoe

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #71 on: June 19, 2008, 10:36:55 AM »

Well, OK.
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John Shaw

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #72 on: June 19, 2008, 10:37:57 AM »

Well, OK.

I was just messing. Sheesh.

LoA is made of poo and fail.
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"btw its not a claim. Its documented fact."

thomasjack

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #73 on: June 19, 2008, 12:19:44 PM »

My grandma bought me "The Secret" for my birthday and at first I was kind of interested—it looked like it might be sort of like R.A. Wilson's Thinker-Prover or the Law of Fives.

But then I realized... They think that stuff is real! Never read the book. They're looney. The whole point of the Law of Fives is that you realize it's bullshit.
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BonerJoe

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Re: Law of Attraction
« Reply #74 on: June 19, 2008, 12:21:55 PM »

I was just messing. Sheesh.

I ain't gettin' upset over nothin'.
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