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Author Topic: Is Ian A Bigot  (Read 4712 times)

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ziggy_encaoua

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Is Ian A Bigot
« on: May 12, 2009, 10:52:03 AM »

If somebody no matter what kept on blaming the Jews for the ills of the world they’re likely to be deemed a bigot, therefore could the same could be said of libertarians who not matter what the issue will blame government?
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Zappa88

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Re: Is Ian A Bigot
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2009, 11:12:59 AM »

Empirical evidence is a factor.
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joshuathesmart

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Re: Is Ian A Bigot
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2009, 01:15:38 PM »

Um, first off, better hope that Ian doesn't read this with his name in the same sentence as libertarian.

Second of all, I am a bigot against the government. This could make for some interesting hate crimes...
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Richard Garner

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Re: Is Ian A Bigot
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2009, 01:15:52 PM »

If somebody no matter what kept on blaming the Jews for the ills of the world they’re likely to be deemed a bigot, therefore could the same could be said of libertarians who not matter what the issue will blame government?

Someone is only a bigot for blaming the Jews for everything if they are wrong, or aware of the lack of evidence for the claim. There is plenty of evidence that governments, as the most powerful and influential organisations in our lives amd societies, are at least a major causal factor in most problems.

Besides, I don't think Ian says that all out problems are caused by governments. Plenty of times he has acknowlegded that there are other problems, but said that government is no solution - it will make them worse.
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Rillion

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Re: Is Ian A Bigot
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2009, 01:51:21 PM »

I don't know that blaming the government for everything that goes wrong would count as bigotry, but it is dumb.  Fortunately most libertarians do not do that, though they do blame government for more than they should ("I went to public school; that's why I don't know about X.") 

However, the government's job  is to make things go wrong, so it's not like the correlation isn't there.  It would be like saying that all donuts in the world are made by Krispy Kreme.  Is that bigotry?  No, it's just inaccurate. 
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anarchir

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Re: Is Ian A Bigot
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2009, 01:59:37 PM »

If being totally against the gov. makes me a bigot, then I guess I'm a bigot. However I dont think that applies. Are you a bigot if you dont like the Nazi party?
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Evil Muppet

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Re: Is Ian A Bigot
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2009, 02:09:24 PM »

bigot

n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

yeah.  guess he would be a bigot.  OH how horrible. 

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Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: Is Ian A Bigot
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2009, 02:45:41 PM »

Whats wrong with being a bigot?
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Rillion

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Re: Is Ian A Bigot
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2009, 02:53:46 PM »

Whats wrong with being a bigot?

Bigotry involves the systematic application of a standard-- often moral-- to an entire group, even if it does not apply to individuals of that group.  It is therefore sloppy thinking and leads to incorrect conclusions, often negative ones. Individual members of a group are not benefited by people assuming things about them which are not true based on that group membership. 

I.e. "Gay men are weak."
"Christians are stupid"
"Black people are shifty."
"Jews are greedy."
etc. etc. etc. 

For this reason, being a bigot makes people think you're stupid, which is not an unfair assumption.   They also tend to not be around you, because they see your thinking as harmful.  Which it is.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 03:00:32 PM by Rillion »
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IndyCA

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Re: Is Ian A Bigot
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2009, 06:10:47 PM »

I do not believe the end justify the means.  Even if everything thing the government did was with the best intentions, is still involves violence and theft as a means to meet their ends. 
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ziggy_encaoua

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Re: Is Ian A Bigot
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2009, 01:11:38 AM »

I was accused recently for being a bigot basically because I wouldn't pander to arguments against individual liberty
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Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: Is Ian A Bigot
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2009, 01:42:40 PM »

Whats wrong with being a bigot?

Bigotry involves the systematic application of a standard-- often moral-- to an entire group, even if it does not apply to individuals of that group.  It is therefore sloppy thinking and leads to incorrect conclusions, often negative ones. Individual members of a group are not benefited by people assuming things about them which are not true based on that group membership. 

I.e. "Gay men are weak."
"Christians are stupid"
"Black people are shifty."
"Jews are greedy."
etc. etc. etc. 

For this reason, being a bigot makes people think you're stupid, which is not an unfair assumption.   They also tend to not be around you, because they see your thinking as harmful.  Which it is.

Thank you Rillion.

I am ambivalent towards bigots so I admit I don't know why everyone else has such an inclusive of all of them being idiots.

Plus, there's an unstated premise that bigotry is wrong, and I wanted to attack that premise. The counter-argument was good.
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Dude, I thought you were a spambot for like a week. You posted like a spambot. You failed the Turing test.

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MacFall

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Re: Is Ian A Bigot
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2009, 06:36:27 PM »

As there is no instance of human interaction that is not now affected in some way by the government, it is completely fair to blame them for the problems that arise within the context of human interaction. If saying so makes one a bigot, then whether one is a bigot or not is irrelevant. Because if one can be truly called a "bigot" for speaking the truth, then the concept of bigotry is worthless as an epithet, and it was never meant to be anything other than that.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 06:40:17 PM by MacFall »
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patrickj

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Re: Is Ian A Bigot
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2009, 08:12:24 PM »

I don't think the term bigot has context in this situation.  If i say i'm bigoted against murderers, then its clear that the term bigot holds no weight.

I see bigot more as a term that describes someone who intends conflict against a specific group or religions ideas.  Ian would say that he doesn't care what they think, he only cares what they do.  Hes only concerned with the violence.  Without it, their thoughts mean nothing, and don't have any effect on his life. 

Regardless, being bigoted against those who do you harm is the mechanism of survival. 


Is Ian a Bigot? 

N/A
« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 08:15:27 PM by patrickj »
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jeffersonish

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Re: Is Ian A Bigot
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2009, 03:04:08 AM »

that was trolla-licious.
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