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Poll

Do you think Ian is a pussy for "blaming" his girlfriend Julia for his continued payment of property taxes?

Yes
- 16 (32.7%)
No (but I really mean yes)
- 6 (12.2%)
Unsure (but probably yes)
- 4 (8.2%)
Possibly (why can't he just admit he's scared of losing his home?!)
- 17 (34.7%)
What are taxes?
- 6 (12.2%)

Total Members Voted: 26


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Author Topic: Ian  (Read 36351 times)

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FTL_Ian

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Re: Ian
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2008, 02:34:02 PM »

Awesome.
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caffeineespressolounge

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Re: Ian
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2008, 02:53:14 PM »

Awesome.
I suppose the "pussy" thing was a little harsh huh? I could've worded that a little more appropriately I suppose. Sorry to offend. It's just that hearing you say it's about Julia sounds a like a cop-out. My cousin and I listen in regularly (and then blog about it to the normal freedom naives) and this point has been made numerous times on your show by you and he and I were talking about it today (I think you mentioned it again last night). Saying you pay your property taxes because she's the one that's afraid of the consequences and "won't let you not pay them" comes across as a little weak my friend. You could just as easily say you're paying your property taxes because you don't want to lose your home and no one would think any less of you and would probably empathize with you(like my usage of the word empathize there?). But, if the real reason if because of Julia than so be it. If you say you'd stop paying property taxes if she weren't around than I believe you.
On a side note, are there any "Pro-Liberty" coffeeshops in Keene?
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Kevin Freeheart

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Re: Ian
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2008, 03:08:58 PM »

Quote
Than why not just admit that? Hiding behind Julia makes no sense to me.

Perhaps this will make it a little more clear... Have you ever been skydiving or riden a roller coaster? Those things are fucking scary. But most people still do them. That's kind of the point.

There is a risk Ian will lose his home. I think he knows that and does not want that to happen. That said, given that risk, I think he would still be willing to do it. The factor that makes his decision is not his fear, therefore he explains the factors that do. This is simply common sense, so I figure it doesn't need explanation. If something didn't pose some sort of risk, there would be very little gain once the investment matures.

It's well understood that Julia will not dematerialize the moment government people seize Ian's house, so it can be assumed that rather than "Julia" being the impetus, "my relationship with Julia" would be.
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Libman was setting you up. You see, he's a resident troll, which means that while I hate him passionately and wish him great harm, he's ONE OF OURS. You are a pathetic interloper who will fade away in a few weeks at most.

caffeineespressolounge

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Re: Ian
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2008, 03:20:47 PM »

Why would Julia stop dating Ian if the government takes his home for not paying property taxes? Why would Ian be afraid of losing her as a girlfriend if he were forced into renting an apartment per se? I'm sure Julia would stand by him in whatever decisions Ian choses to make with his own life and property and if she does not than it is better for him to find this out sooner rather than later is it not?
According to Ian he is paying his property taxes because Julia wants him to not because he's afraid of losing his home or as you state because he's afraid of losing his relationship with her. This perplexes me even more! Certainly Julia is not so shallow as to up and leave Ian if he were to stop paying his property taxes so why would he be afraid of that? And if he is than it should speak volumes to his common sense indicator.
I agree with Ian 100% that something so bold should be done with others as a group and not as an individual. Strength against government is always in the numbers.
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AntonLee

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Re: Ian
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2008, 03:33:01 PM »

my girl won't let me move to Keene.  So I'm stuck in the Seacoast area for now, possibly manchester area once things get settled.  I'd like to be in the upper regions before I'm 50.
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Kevin Freeheart

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Re: Ian
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2008, 03:36:11 PM »

Quote
Why would Julia stop dating Ian if the government takes his home for not paying property taxes?

Because it's her home too? Now, I don't know Julia and know less of Julia and Ian's relationship but I pretty much assume that they're married in everything buy name because of that whole "Keep the state the fuck out of our lives" thing. So yeah, I'd venture to guess that Ian's refusal to pay taxes would result in Julia getting her home seized and I can see why she'd not want that.

Quote
This perplexes me even more! Certainly Julia is not so shallow as to up and leave Ian if he were to stop paying his property taxes so why would he be afraid of that?

Again, goes back to that whole "I don't know the extent of their relationship" but being married myself, I'll assume that they're committed to each other and building a life together. With that in mind, she's not just a girlfriend crashing at his place, but part of the "crew" that runs a household. I'm willing to bet that both Ian and Julia consider the property to be "home" even though only Ian's name is on the tax threat.
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Quote from: John Shaw
Libman was setting you up. You see, he's a resident troll, which means that while I hate him passionately and wish him great harm, he's ONE OF OURS. You are a pathetic interloper who will fade away in a few weeks at most.

mikehz

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Re: Ian
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2008, 03:38:27 PM »

I don't blame him, or Julia, for paying taxes. I know a couple of libertarians who married some years ago. He refused to pay income tax, and so they came after him--and her. She lost everything she had, and even though they are now divorced, the IRS continues to harass her.
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"Force always attracts men of low morality." Albert Einstein

caffeineespressolounge

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Re: Ian
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2008, 03:47:12 PM »

Quote
Why would Julia stop dating Ian if the government takes his home for not paying property taxes?

Because it's her home too? Now, I don't know Julia and know less of Julia and Ian's relationship but I pretty much assume that they're married in everything buy name because of that whole "Keep the state the fuck out of our lives" thing. So yeah, I'd venture to guess that Ian's refusal to pay taxes would result in Julia getting her home seized and I can see why she'd not want that.

Quote
This perplexes me even more! Certainly Julia is not so shallow as to up and leave Ian if he were to stop paying his property taxes so why would he be afraid of that?

Again, goes back to that whole "I don't know the extent of their relationship" but being married myself, I'll assume that they're committed to each other and building a life together. With that in mind, she's not just a girlfriend crashing at his place, but part of the "crew" that runs a household. I'm willing to bet that both Ian and Julia consider the property to be "home" even though only Ian's name is on the tax threat.
I will assume you're correct here and that they're more or less married. My issue is not with the paying of the property taxes but the perceived cop-out behind blaming Julia for his doing so. If she's stated "You don't pay property taxes and I'm out of here" than I can understand why Ian would continue to pay them...but why would Julia ask this of a man so obviously against such a thing? A man she quite obviously knows is against such a thing and has been since she's known him. He stated in this forum that if it weren't for her he would not pay property taxes on his home. So the only thing preventing him from doing this is Julia? I find that hard to believe. I don't think she'd prevent him from doing anything that involved Ian "protesting" government involvement in his life as it seems obvious to me that that is precisely what his life has become about. But I may be, and have been, wrong.
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BonerJoe

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Re: Ian
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2008, 03:48:08 PM »

Quote
Why would Julia stop dating Ian if the government takes his home for not paying property taxes?

Because it's her home too? Now, I don't know Julia and know less of Julia and Ian's relationship but I pretty much assume that they're married in everything buy name because of that whole "Keep the state the fuck out of our lives" thing. So yeah, I'd venture to guess that Ian's refusal to pay taxes would result in Julia getting her home seized and I can see why she'd not want that.

Quote
This perplexes me even more! Certainly Julia is not so shallow as to up and leave Ian if he were to stop paying his property taxes so why would he be afraid of that?

Again, goes back to that whole "I don't know the extent of their relationship" but being married myself, I'll assume that they're committed to each other and building a life together. With that in mind, she's not just a girlfriend crashing at his place, but part of the "crew" that runs a household. I'm willing to bet that both Ian and Julia consider the property to be "home" even though only Ian's name is on the tax threat.
I will assume you're correct here and that they're more or less married. My issue is not with the paying of the property taxes but the perceived cop-out behind blaming Julia for his doing so. If she's stated "You don't pay property taxes and I'm out of here" than I can understand why Ian would continue to pay them...but why would Julia ask this of a man so obviously against such a thing? A man she quite obviously knows is against such a thing and has been since she's known him. He stated in this forum that if it weren't for her he would not pay property taxes on his home. So the only thing preventing him from doing this is Julia? I find that hard to believe. I don't think she'd prevent him from doing anything that involved Ian "protesting" government involvement in his life as it seems obvious to me that that is precisely what his life has become about. But I may be, and have been, wrong.

Why do you keep repeating yourself over and over and over again?
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caffeineespressolounge

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Re: Ian
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2008, 03:54:56 PM »

I don't blame him, or Julia, for paying taxes. I know a couple of libertarians who married some years ago. He refused to pay income tax, and so they came after him--and her. She lost everything she had, and even though they are now divorced, the IRS continues to harass her.
I'm not blaming him for paying his property taxes but for stating on his show repeatedly that his reason for doing so is because his girlfriend makes him.
I pay my property taxes because I'm afraid of losing my home and going to prison. Admitting that was not difficult for me. Notice how I did not state that it was my wife preventing me from boycotting my property taxes but that it was my own fear of the consequences for not doing so? Now, if my wife told me if I stopped paying property taxes she'd leave me than I'd question whether or not my wife knew me at all. But...to each his own. Ian came on the forum and openly discussed this with us and I consider it squashed.
The mere fact that he's promoting liberty to more people on a daily basis than all of us combined leaves me wondering whether or not the poll was even necessary. Just something my cousin and I were throwing around earlier today and thought I'd bounce it off all you damn liberty-lovin' peaceniks!  :mrgreen:
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caffeineespressolounge

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Re: Ian
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2008, 03:56:06 PM »

Quote
Why would Julia stop dating Ian if the government takes his home for not paying property taxes?

Because it's her home too? Now, I don't know Julia and know less of Julia and Ian's relationship but I pretty much assume that they're married in everything buy name because of that whole "Keep the state the fuck out of our lives" thing. So yeah, I'd venture to guess that Ian's refusal to pay taxes would result in Julia getting her home seized and I can see why she'd not want that.

Quote
This perplexes me even more! Certainly Julia is not so shallow as to up and leave Ian if he were to stop paying his property taxes so why would he be afraid of that?

Again, goes back to that whole "I don't know the extent of their relationship" but being married myself, I'll assume that they're committed to each other and building a life together. With that in mind, she's not just a girlfriend crashing at his place, but part of the "crew" that runs a household. I'm willing to bet that both Ian and Julia consider the property to be "home" even though only Ian's name is on the tax threat.
I will assume you're correct here and that they're more or less married. My issue is not with the paying of the property taxes but the perceived cop-out behind blaming Julia for his doing so. If she's stated "You don't pay property taxes and I'm out of here" than I can understand why Ian would continue to pay them...but why would Julia ask this of a man so obviously against such a thing? A man she quite obviously knows is against such a thing and has been since she's known him. He stated in this forum that if it weren't for her he would not pay property taxes on his home. So the only thing preventing him from doing this is Julia? I find that hard to believe. I don't think she'd prevent him from doing anything that involved Ian "protesting" government involvement in his life as it seems obvious to me that that is precisely what his life has become about. But I may be, and have been, wrong.

Why do you keep repeating yourself over and over and over again?
For some reason I feel like I need a translator today and who better to translate my verbage than me?
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Kevin Freeheart

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Re: Ian
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2008, 04:05:27 PM »

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My issue is not with the paying of the property taxes but the perceived cop-out behind blaming Julia for his doing so.

Ian doesn't blame Julia. That would be less "cop-out" and more "childish". "I wanna refuse to pay taxes but she won't let me *throw toy*" isn't what he's doing. Saying "Being kicked out of the house would cause upset to Julia and I don't want to cause upset to Julia" is what he's saying (again, I've explained that whole "we all understand so it doesn't need to be stated flat out" thing) and I think it's a valid reason not to do something.

And to further than even more, Ian has expressed it clearly. Julia isn't worried over being thrown out of the house per se, she's worried about being thrown out of the house for useless reasons. One person is a tax resister but ten people is a movement. I recall Ian putting out a call for ten other people (for property tax resistance AND freedom to travel activism) so that Julia would feel more comfortable with the idea.
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Quote from: John Shaw
Libman was setting you up. You see, he's a resident troll, which means that while I hate him passionately and wish him great harm, he's ONE OF OURS. You are a pathetic interloper who will fade away in a few weeks at most.

caffeineespressolounge

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Re: Ian
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2008, 04:14:09 PM »

I agree with him, and you, there. Not paying your property taxes is not a step to be taken lightly and is always best to exercise this kind of "disobedience" with a multitude of others. I am having a hard time believing there aren't more home owners in the Keene area willing to join Ian in this regard. Out of the roughly 25,000 residents in Keene we can get together a dozen or so to take a stand like this?
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Militant

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Re: Ian
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2008, 04:15:25 PM »

Quote
My issue is not with the paying of the property taxes but the perceived cop-out behind blaming Julia for his doing so.

Ian doesn't blame Julia. That would be less "cop-out" and more "childish". "I wanna refuse to pay taxes but she won't let me *throw toy*" isn't what he's doing. Saying "Being kicked out of the house would cause upset to Julia and I don't want to cause upset to Julia" is what he's saying (again, I've explained that whole "we all understand so it doesn't need to be stated flat out" thing) and I think it's a valid reason not to do something.

And to further than even more, Ian has expressed it clearly. Julia isn't worried over being thrown out of the house per se, she's worried about being thrown out of the house for useless reasons. One person is a tax resister but ten people is a movement. I recall Ian putting out a call for ten other people (for property tax resistance AND freedom to travel activism) so that Julia would feel more comfortable with the idea.

As par usual, Kevin hits the nail right on the head.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2008, 04:52:23 PM by Militant »
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Skooma

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Re: Ian
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2008, 04:19:37 PM »

I'm not scared.  It's just money.  I'll get more.

But I won't get another Julia.  So, call me a pussy if it makes you feel good.

Awwwwwww
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