Welcome to the Free Talk Live bulletin board system!
This board is closed to new users and new posts.  Thank you to all our great mods and users over the years.  Details here.
185859 Posts in 9829 Topics by 1371 Members
Latest Member: cjt26
Home Help
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  The Show
| | |-+  Enough Derek J Already!
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6   Go Down

Author Topic: Enough Derek J Already!  (Read 17864 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Aahz

  • Anarchist Dad
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
    • Philaahzophy
Re: Enough Derek J Already!
« Reply #45 on: June 05, 2012, 03:07:27 PM »

I don't remember the last call from Derrick - probably been at least a week.

And this thread was started 9 days before you posted that comment.  At that point he had been a major topic of conversation 4 out of the previous 7 days.  And if you'll go back and read my first post, you'll see the complaint isn't about Derrick or activism.  The complaint is about the repetitive 5-10 minutes of free advertising given to Derrick J related projects every time you spoke about or to him.

Aahz

  • Anarchist Dad
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
    • Philaahzophy
Re: Enough Derek J Already!
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2012, 03:13:37 PM »

I currently listen to the show a lot less and turn off the podcast before it is over much more often than I used to. There are two primary reasons for this. First, Ian seems to be becoming quite insular, such that his arguments all orient around a network of catchphrases that only make sense to other libertarians of his particular strain, but leave other listeners befuddled. Saying this like "the state doesn't exist" or "the state is the most successful criminal gang" is not only a) seemingly contradictory, but b) completely inaccessible when it lacks explanation or qualification. Imagine listening to a democrat or republican talk about the nature of politics, and trying to understand them, if you were not already intimately familiar with the structure of assumptions and cultural biases that they were working from. For libertarians, this approach is boring in the same way that hearing a bunch of philosophically ungrounded cliches over and over again would be boring to anyone familiar with them. It is not thought provoking. For non-libertarians, it is boring because it doesn't make any sense within the context of their cultural reality. They are either severely mistranslating what is being said so that they can make sense of it, or they are just registering it as gibberish and moving on. That is a really bad combination of effects, because it puts a shelf life on regular listeners, and bars the attraction of new one's.

This is exactly the kind of thing I keep hearing from people I personally turn on to FTL.  Over the 6 years I've been listening, that's a couple dozen people (of varying degrees of belief in Liberty) who have listened for a month or more and then quit because of things like this.  It doesn't matter what the callers bring up, a large number of calls resolve (devolve?) as described above.

You guys don't get hear why people stop listening, precisely because they've stopped listening.  They don't care enough to let you know.  And when fans and supporters of the show try to tell you, your response is "I've never heard that".  Maybe it's because you're simply not listening.

-Aahz

Cognitive Dissident

  • Amateur Agorist
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3916
    • View Profile
Re: Enough Derek J Already!
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2012, 05:05:12 PM »

Good comments, all.  Thank you PC Harris for the time you put into your comment.  Hopefully it penetrates, where our message has not.
Logged

sillyperson

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5196
  • Free the Mallocs!
    • View Profile
    • NH Liberty Alliance
Re: Enough Derek J Already!
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2012, 06:24:01 PM »

This is exactly the kind of thing I keep hearing from people I personally turn on to FTL.  Over the 6 years I've been listening, that's a couple dozen people (of varying degrees of belief in Liberty) who have listened for a month or more and then quit because of things like this. 
Me, too.
I used to be a tireless FTL evangelist.
Now ... I hardly listen myself, and I sure don't want people I know to associate me with Ian/FK in-your-face "activism" and weirdly insular, cultishness.

I like the BBS, though.

slayerboy

  • Untitled
  • FTL AMPlifier Silver
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 250
    • View Profile
Re: Enough Derek J Already!
« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2012, 05:08:23 AM »

I agree wholeheartedly with what Harris wrote.

I'm going to take it a step farther.  I've been listening to this show for at least 5 years.  Lately, within the last year or so, something has been nagging at me about the show.  The last few months have been especially hard to listen to.  Harris hit the nail on the head, and made me think about why I'm skipping segments or sometimes whole shows on a more frequent basis.

The quality of callers and number of callers has seemed to drop steadily.  Remember Sunfest? Scott the Bigot? Yeah, they were crazy, but they made the show fun to listen to because it gave these crazy people a place to voice their opinion and then a chance for Ian and Mark to show why their crazy views are crazy.  It almost feels like calls are being screened and more prepared content is taking over.  This is just from a listener standpoint.

The other problem is it gets tiring listening to the show 7 days a week.  It's starting to become a news commentary show rather than a call-in show from what I can tell.  It seems the more stations the show gets, the lesser the quality becomes.  With the exception of a couple of current 3rd hosts, the current crop is not up to par of what the old ones were. Again, just a listener's observation, I could be completely off my rocker on all of this.

This is not to take away from how successful the show has become.  Mark and Ian, you guys are some of the hardest working radio hosts from what I have seen.  I'm concerned there might be some burnout taking place on both listeners and the hosts. I'm tired of hearing about the CD, because it seems like you guys are banging your heads against a brick wall and getting nowhere, which could be contributing to the burnout.

I wish I could offer solutions, but frankly I have none.  The show seems to have reached its peak and I fear it might be on the downward spiral.  I'll continue to support the show, because I still think it offers at least a little bit of value to new listeners, but it does seem to be moving away from teaching people about liberty and towards how liberties are being taken away without much solution other than join the FSP.
Logged

Turd Ferguson

  • Opportunist Extraordinaire
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4085
    • View Profile
    • https://twitter.com/#!/realmikequick
Re: Enough Derek J Already!
« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2012, 01:00:40 PM »

The show needs more laughs.......... and boobies.

Oh, and you dont need to come back with "YOU'RE A BOOBIE!" cuz I already thought of it, so it wouldn't be all that funny.




The show needs to entertain as much as it needs to educate. Once you get the basic message of the show, its kinda hard to listen day in, day out if theres not alot to stimulate your brain in another way seperate from that.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 01:09:05 PM by Turd Ferguson »
Logged
Some peoples idea of hell is having to mind their own business.

FTL_Ian

  • Professional Iconoclast
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10446
    • View Profile
    • Free Keene
Re: Enough Derek J Already!
« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2012, 12:06:35 PM »

Mark is incorrect about the downloads being down.  People come, people go.  That's how its always been.  Some people like some co-hosts, dislike others.

Usually if someone says "the state doesn't exist", that idea is explained, so it's not just dropped on people without explanation.

Some people call in to thank us for helping them find liberty, so despite all your complaints, we're still accomplishing what I set out to - bringing people principled ideas in an entertaining format.

If the show has burned on you, there's really nothing I can do about that.
Logged
Please support the show by joining the AMP program at http//amp.freetalklive.com

I blog at http://freekeene.com

FTL_Ian

  • Professional Iconoclast
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10446
    • View Profile
    • Free Keene
Re: Enough Derek J Already!
« Reply #52 on: June 29, 2012, 12:20:01 PM »

Also, I'm sorry FTL isn't exactly what you might want it to be.  If we did the show exactly how you want it, then it would just disappoint a different set of people.  Perhaps you should consider looking on the bright side:

-FTL airs on over 100 radio stations coast-to-coast, plus XM.
-TALKERS named us #52 on the "Heavy Hundred" list this year, up from #79.

No other program with a principled, liberty-oriented host can claim anything close to that.  I wish there were more liberty-oriented programs on national radio, but I'm afraid that's just not the case.  Some day, I'd like to help make that happen for other shows, but I don't have the $100,000 per year that it would take.

If you think you can do it better (surely someone can), feel free to enter the market and give us some competition.  I'm really not a great talk show host, but I'm a persistent businessman, and Mark and I have made this work.
Logged
Please support the show by joining the AMP program at http//amp.freetalklive.com

I blog at http://freekeene.com

FTL_Ian

  • Professional Iconoclast
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10446
    • View Profile
    • Free Keene
Re: Enough Derek J Already!
« Reply #53 on: June 29, 2012, 12:24:28 PM »

Quote
The other problem is it gets tiring listening to the show 7 days a week.  It's starting to become a news commentary show rather than a call-in show from what I can tell.  It seems the more stations the show gets, the lesser the quality becomes.  With the exception of a couple of current 3rd hosts, the current crop is not up to par of what the old ones were. Again, just a listener's observation, I could be completely off my rocker on all of this.

I don't blame you for not listening to 21 hours per week - that's a LOT of content!  Remember, this is a radio show first and foremost.  We offer seven shows per week because that helps us get on more radio stations.  You already know what liberty is about, but the people "scanning the band" in their hometown do not necessarily.  Seven days of content increases our chances of reaching *their* ears.

If we aren't taking calls, it usually means we have none to take.  Yes, we have over 100 stations but not many air us live during the weeknights.  Without callers, yep, it's a news commentary panel discussion show.
Logged
Please support the show by joining the AMP program at http//amp.freetalklive.com

I blog at http://freekeene.com

FTL_Ian

  • Professional Iconoclast
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10446
    • View Profile
    • Free Keene
Re: Enough Derek J Already!
« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2012, 12:35:35 PM »

Also, it's nonsense that we talk too much about CD.  There's hardly any of which to speak!  Within the last week, the only CD we discussed was the profanity protest in Middleboro.

Seems the objections here are regarding the type of CD that tends to happen up here in the Shire.  Fact is, people move here because of the people doing CD.  I call that effective.

All the CD critics have valid points about planning and considering one type of CD over another.  To them I say, show us how its done!  Give us a good solid example of effective, well-planned CD that wins over the majority of people.  I'd love to talk about YOUR CD on the air.  I'd love to interview you about what worked for you.

Call anytime and tell us all about it! 
Logged
Please support the show by joining the AMP program at http//amp.freetalklive.com

I blog at http://freekeene.com

Cognitive Dissident

  • Amateur Agorist
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3916
    • View Profile
Re: Enough Derek J Already!
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2012, 01:10:59 PM »

Once again, you're conflating doing activism with broadcasting the most offensive activism all over the world and implying that it's going to persuade people to accept "the ideas of liberty."  IMO, there are several examples (some of which I've enumerated repeatedly) that drive people away from "those kooks" more effectively than anything.  

All some of us are asking is that you consider what you're saluting, on air, as productive activism that's consistent with liberty.  Occasionally, there's something that doesn't need to be pimped on-air for its scandal value.  Occasionally there's something that drives "fellow travelers" to say to themselves "now, there's a bunch of jerks I don't want to be like--their 'philosophy' must be a bunch of shit!"  (Or worse yet, "What would the world be like if everyone behaved like that?")  We know that's not true, and rests on false premises, but some of them never will, because they've tuned out the shenanigans, and principled libertarianism along with it.

Now, I know you're going to come back with "everybody's got an opinion," but there comes a time when you want to persuade those not yet persuaded, as opposed to those of us who are already in the choir.  You probably aren't appreciative enough of the echo chamber you live in.  It's very easy for people otherwise sensitive to libertarian ideas to get "tired of those fucking hippies and their stunts."

I hope this response reaches you in an open-minded state, as you seem to be a bit more thoughtful (on this topic) this morning.  Lest it sound like I'm just trying to heap on negativity, there's a reason I'm an amplifier--it's because I want the message spread, and as you've indicated, there's not a wealth of alternatives.  In general, I think you do a great job as a show host, and I don't doubt your sincerity.  I just think you sometimes fail to grasp how easy it is to have a negative impact that counteracts all the hard work you do, along with [that of] a great many others, to have a positive impact.  

One more thing.  Liberty oriented people are more likely than others to give you "the straight scoop" on what they think.  It's probably in our DNA.  There's something more to it, however--we're like lost family.  We'll tell each other when their shit stinks.  We wouldn't tell "outsiders" the same thing because we don't care about them, or what they're doing, as much.  I know it doesn't feel good to hear it, but you should probably be glad that people who care are willing to give you what you may not recognize as a heartfelt, salient opinion.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 01:15:17 PM by What's the frequency, Kenneth? »
Logged

FTL_Ian

  • Professional Iconoclast
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10446
    • View Profile
    • Free Keene
Re: Enough Derek J Already!
« Reply #56 on: June 29, 2012, 01:18:15 PM »

Why not call in and give us your opinion when you hear us talking about something you don't like?  Wouldn't that be more productive than just complaining here and hoping we talk about something else?

Hear something you don't like?  Call the show and tell us why.  "Here's why I think this is bad activism...x,y,z."

That would make for a better show, IMO.
Logged
Please support the show by joining the AMP program at http//amp.freetalklive.com

I blog at http://freekeene.com

Cognitive Dissident

  • Amateur Agorist
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3916
    • View Profile
Re: Enough Derek J Already!
« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2012, 01:22:33 PM »

Why not call in and give us your opinion when you hear us talking about something you don't like?  Wouldn't that be more productive than just complaining here and hoping we talk about something else?

Hear something you don't like?  Call the show and tell us why.  "Here's why I think this is bad activism...x,y,z."

That would make for a better show, IMO.

First off, I listen to the podcast, not the radio show, and I'm generally busy during those hours.  I used to have a lot more time to sit and wait to get on the air for a minute or two.  Second, I'd prefer not to be airing the "family business" as "dirty laundry" on the air.   Finally, of course, critique of the show is pretty bad radio, and I'd like the show itself to stay more positive.  I'd be the first to say that threads like this are a real downer (however important.)
Logged

FTL_Ian

  • Professional Iconoclast
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10446
    • View Profile
    • Free Keene
Re: Enough Derek J Already!
« Reply #58 on: June 29, 2012, 01:25:42 PM »

Disagreeing with hosts is great radio.  You can always call the next day.  If I think something is worth talking about and you think it's terrible, I think that would be entertaining to listen to.
Logged
Please support the show by joining the AMP program at http//amp.freetalklive.com

I blog at http://freekeene.com

FTL_Ian

  • Professional Iconoclast
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10446
    • View Profile
    • Free Keene
Re: Enough Derek J Already!
« Reply #59 on: June 29, 2012, 01:26:34 PM »

Obviously I am oblivious to what people think is bad activism, so if no one calls to give their opinion, then the audience will only get the opinion of the hosts.  (obvious)
Logged
Please support the show by joining the AMP program at http//amp.freetalklive.com

I blog at http://freekeene.com
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6   Go Up
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  The Show
| | |-+  Enough Derek J Already!

// ]]>

Page created in 0.034 seconds with 34 queries.