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The Green Bastard

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Debate Over Declawing Cats
« on: November 18, 2009, 07:14:57 PM »

I have found the answer.



[youtube=425,350]vCaTpFwcC9o[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCaTpFwcC9o
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 07:18:43 PM by KTOKTO »
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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Debate Over Declawing Cats
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2009, 09:33:12 PM »

I can't listen to that guy.  We had to declaw our cats to move into the apartment we were in for about a year.  Now, they're permanently inside cats (and I've been made to feel ashamed of what we did to them.)
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ElGuapo

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Re: Debate Over Declawing Cats
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2009, 08:50:58 AM »

Although I basically agree that there are declawed cats out there, with loving homes, which might not have otherwise been so lucky – I still feel like declawing a cat is cruel; the only reason I can see for it is because the human knows they will be too lazy to trim the claws regularly. I have two clawed cats, which have put countless little holes in my beautiful, cobalt-blue leather couches; I’m often too lazy to clip their nails, and I haven’t provided adequate play structures to wear their nails down as would occur in the wild. I’ve already had their reproductive organs removed – for my own convenience – I could not put those beautiful creatures through any more pain just to make things easier on myself.

During the debate that I was listening to on the Podcast, I heard Ian bring up circumcision – I interpreted his statements as indicating that he feels that the declawing of a cat is at the discretion of the owner and that this is similar to the circumcision of a child being at the discretion of the parents. Now, I feel a little bad for a declawed or “fixed” cat, but I can’t be absolutely certain that the cat really even understands what has happened or particularly cares when it comes down to it.

Circumcision, however, is the absolute pinnacle of lazy parenting and is nothing less than child abuse. Circumcision gained popularity in America as a punishment for young boys found masturbating, once circumcised, the glanus dries out and the newly exposed skin becomes swollen, rough and desensitized – it makes masturbation more difficult and considerably less pleasurable. People have their children circumcised for only one of three reasons, no matter what excuses they tell themselves;
1)   Religious doctrine – a pretty stupid reason to mutilate your child.
2)    Abject laziness – they don’t feel like cleaning the little guy’s pee pee until he’s old enough to do it himself (Hell, chop off the fingers, toes and ears while you’re at it).
3)   It’s all they have ever known and they assume it to be the right choice even though it was a choice they never had the chance to make for themselves.

My intention is not purely to ridicule or offend – I wish I knew how to deliver this argument without calling names, but sometimes, name calling feels appropriate. Taking a child, with no ability to resist or comprehend, and forcibly removing a body part for any reason is absolutely an initiation of force upon that child. If you don’t recognize it as the initiation of force, find any uncircumcised adult and attempt to circumcise them – let’s see how they respond.  Could a man in a coma circumcise a child?  Maybe I misunderstood Ian’s position on all this – but circumcision is a barbaric, cruel practice – what restitution could ever be enough for a circumcised man who’s most sensitive pleasure producing part is critically damaged before they’ve ever had a chance to even take it for a test drive.
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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Debate Over Declawing Cats
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2009, 12:04:33 PM »

I still feel like declawing a cat is cruel; the only reason I can see for it is because the human knows they will be too lazy to trim the claws regularly.

Did you read the comment above?  We were forced to do it to keep our cats when we had to move.  Should we have killed them instead?
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BonerJoe

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Re: Debate Over Declawing Cats
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2009, 01:50:39 PM »

We were forced to do it to keep our cats when we had to move.

I'm sorry? Was someone pointing a gun at your head to move to that particular apartment?
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AL the Inconspicuous

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Re: Debate Over Declawing Cats
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2009, 01:57:54 PM »

Every time anyone makes an "animal rights" argument, I put a dozen live kittens through the meat slicer.  :twisted:

The price of freedom -- that is not being ruled by other people's irrational emotions -- is not imposing your own subjective emotions on others!
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ElGuapo

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Re: Debate Over Declawing Cats
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2009, 03:07:45 PM »

What's the frequency, Kenneth? – I did read your comment above - I wasn’t responding to you…if I broke BBS etiquette, I apologize. My main focus was to comment on Ian’s circumcision comments – from the PodCast that I had just finished listening to. But, in-line with what BonerJoe said; I doubt that anyone had a gun to your head, forcing you to take that particular apartment – continuing to hunt for another place might have been too much work. Perhaps you really liked that place and getting to live there was totally worth permanently altering the small fuzzy creatures which have come to depend upon you for their care – but you haven’t violated my trust, nor my private property, so it’s your issue to deal with and my opinion regarding your motives remains my opinion whether or not you agree. You could have had them euthanized or given them to someone else – I still wouldn’t care about what you’d done, but I might have an opinion about it if the topic were ever brought up, and depending on the circumstances; you might one day come to be aware of that opinion, but let’s not invite the interpretation that this would mean that I somehow care all of a sudden – everybody’s got an opinion, and I don’t care about most of those either.

 Alex Libman – Are you just telling us about your favorite past-time or did you have a point to make? Your response, if a reaction to my post; would seem to indicate that you either did not read my post or you did not understand it. If not in reaction to my post; your post would appear to be curiously random. The focus of my mini-rant was…wait for it…circumcision. People do horrible things to animals all the time and I object to cruelty in any form – but, if you put a kitten through a grinder; that’s your problem. The point I was trying to make was based on my understanding of Ian’s comment which I interpreted as indicating that Ian feels a parent has every right to circumcise their child – I wanted to get across that circumcising any child is an act of aggression against that child – this has nothing to do with animal rights beyond any rights one may believe to be possessed or bestowed upon the human animal. Now, if you’re attempting to be funny; HA HA HA – I like to put kittens into a blender on puree, then I have a girl drink the blended kitten, puke it into a cup and have another girl drink it.
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dc0de

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Re: Debate Over Declawing Cats
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2009, 03:10:26 PM »

Every time anyone makes an "animal rights" argument, I put a dozen live kittens through the meat slicer.  :twisted:

I don't think anyone here but you has mentioned "animal rights". I agree, I don't think non sentient animals have rights, and while I personally think it's cruel to declaw cats I wouldn't force anyone else not to. I may judge them based on it however.
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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Debate Over Declawing Cats
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2009, 05:55:02 PM »

We were forced to do it to keep our cats when we had to move.

I'm sorry? Was someone pointing a gun at your head to move to that particular apartment?

Sue me.  I chose the closest word I could find.  I had one day for apartment shopping before the move.  I did the best I could.  That option included keeping the cats and finding a place close enough to get to work in reasonable time.  All the other apartments I looked at failed for reasons like they wouldn't allow cats.

Thanks for being sorry, though.
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BonerJoe

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Re: Debate Over Declawing Cats
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2009, 05:56:51 PM »

We were forced to do it to keep our cats when we had to move.

I'm sorry? Was someone pointing a gun at your head to move to that particular apartment?

Sue me.  I chose the closest word I could find.  I had one day for apartment shopping before the move.  I did the best I could.  That option included keeping the cats and finding a place close enough to get to work in reasonable time.  All the other apartments I looked at failed for reasons like they wouldn't allow cats.

Thanks for being sorry, though.

So instead of boarding them to give yourself more time to find a suitable place, you elected to spend a ton more money getting surgery? Meh.
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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Debate Over Declawing Cats
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2009, 05:59:03 PM »

What's the frequency, Kenneth? – I did read your comment above - I wasn’t responding to you…if I broke BBS etiquette, I apologize. My main focus was to comment on Ian’s circumcision comments – from the PodCast that I had just finished listening to. But, in-line with what BonerJoe said; I doubt that anyone had a gun to your head, forcing you to take that particular apartment – continuing to hunt for another place might have been too much work. Perhaps you really liked that place and getting to live there was totally worth permanently altering the small fuzzy creatures which have come to depend upon you for their care – but you haven’t violated my trust, nor my private property, so it’s your issue to deal with and my opinion regarding your motives remains my opinion whether or not you agree. You could have had them euthanized or given them to someone else – I still wouldn’t care about what you’d done, but I might have an opinion about it if the topic were ever brought up, and depending on the circumstances; you might one day come to be aware of that opinion, but let’s not invite the interpretation that this would mean that I somehow care all of a sudden – everybody’s got an opinion, and I don’t care about most of those either.

Yes, killing them was an option I thought worse.  There was no one to take them.  My sister kept them for a week while we moved, and put them on the plane.  I didn't have all the options you imagine, and I'll bet many of the people who choose a sucky alternative don't have a lot of options.
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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Debate Over Declawing Cats
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2009, 05:59:56 PM »

We were forced to do it to keep our cats when we had to move.

I'm sorry? Was someone pointing a gun at your head to move to that particular apartment?

Sue me.  I chose the closest word I could find.  I had one day for apartment shopping before the move.  I did the best I could.  That option included keeping the cats and finding a place close enough to get to work in reasonable time.  All the other apartments I looked at failed for reasons like they wouldn't allow cats.

Thanks for being sorry, though.

So instead of boarding them to give yourself more time to find a suitable place, you elected to spend a ton more money getting surgery? Meh.

I had no time to find a suitable place.  The move took all the time there was.  There were few alternatives.
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AL the Inconspicuous

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Re: Debate Over Declawing Cats
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2009, 06:13:54 PM »

Sometimes people post after only reading the thread subject.

It's not all about you and your post.

I come here to rant.

Deal with it.

Wooo!

:twisted:
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ElGuapo

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Re: Debate Over Declawing Cats
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2009, 08:06:40 PM »

Hey Kenneth,
If you made the best decision you could with the information you had; everyone else can suck it. I had my cats "fixed" and both will die virgins, and I feel bad about that - but I'm pretty sure neither of them understand or miss what I have taken from them, so - I don't loose any sleep over it. Neither should you. But that doesn't mean that cutting off kitty fingertips isn't a shitty thing to do.

[img width= height=]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_PS_wLO3bow0/SFifAEYuPbI/AAAAAAAABds/hlIMK1__n1E/s1600/Declaw.jpg[/img]
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Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: Debate Over Declawing Cats
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2009, 11:08:45 PM »

http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?topic=20656.msg574263#msg574263

Ask Soundwave how it feels to be a declawed cat. She seems to know quite well.
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I am looking for an honest man. -Diogenes The Cynic

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