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Author Topic: Civil Action as Violence  (Read 2000 times)

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thedrickster

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Civil Action as Violence
« on: November 11, 2010, 10:01:41 PM »

I have a hard time with Sam & Ian's reaction to the Michigan neighbor conflict raised on the November 9th show. Mark suggested that in the absence of any other obvious remedy the property pursue action against the motocross track in the courts.

Sam & Ian dismissed this course of action as "violence", completely ignoring Mark's salient point that the motocross track had clearly aggressed against its neighbors.

It is clear to my little minarchist brain that the motocross track has committed the tort of nuisance and should be liable for it. Perhaps Mark wasn't as clear as he could be but bringing a civil action for the tort of nuisance isn't state violence. No police would be involved, the motocross track would not be compelled to answer the complaint, ignoring it would bring nothing more than a civil judgment and a perhaps a lien.

Libertarians ought to be advocating civil actions as preference over criminal and kangaroo proceedings.

What is the problem and given the existing mechanisms what is inherently wrong with civil courts as a last resort in dispute resolution?
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anarchir

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Re: Civil Action as Violence
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2010, 10:56:10 PM »

I am an anarchist not minarchist and I say use the available means that are best suited to each situation. If the proper arbitration system isnt there, then there's nothing you can do is there?
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thedrickster

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Re: Civil Action as Violence
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2010, 11:07:53 PM »

I am an anarchist not minarchist and I say use the available means that are best suited to each situation. If the proper arbitration system isnt there, then there's nothing you can do is there?

That is my take, in a world of undesirable alternatives civil courts are highly preferable to frothing gangs of cops and kangaroo, color of law, "administrative courts".

In this case the only real alternative to nuisance suits are zoning laws.....I know which one I prefer!
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Ecolitan

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Re: Civil Action as Violence
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2010, 10:06:52 PM »

Quote
it would bring nothing more than a civil judgment and a perhaps a lien.

Clearly you are entirely incapable of following this statement to it's logical conclusion regarding the threat of violence.

And, I know nothing of this motocross track.

Also, in a situation where defensive force is justified and there is an existing state that will cage you for wielding that force yourself it's not necessarily so bad to let the state do it for you.

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thedrickster

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Re: Civil Action as Violence
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2010, 04:23:23 PM »

Quote
it would bring nothing more than a civil judgment and a perhaps a lien.

Clearly you are entirely incapable of following this statement to it's logical conclusion regarding the threat of violence.

And, I know nothing of this motocross track.

Also, in a situation where defensive force is justified and there is an existing state that will cage you for wielding that force yourself it's not necessarily so bad to let the state do it for you.



I'm sorry in this case I just don't see violence as the inevitable end. The lien would only be imposed IF the motocross track owner chose not to answer a legitimate civil complaint for the tort of nuisance. Even then, the motocross track owner would ONLY be impacted by the lien if he chose to use the government's land titling system when selling his property.

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thedrickster

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Re: Civil Action as Violence
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2010, 04:26:30 PM »

I should clarify a bit, a level of aggression in excess of that already displayed by the motocross track's owner.
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BonerJoe

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Re: Civil Action as Violence
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2010, 04:42:24 PM »

I should clarify a bit, a level of aggression in excess of that already displayed by the motocross track's owner.

So if someone comes at you with a knife, it's immoral to shoot them?
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thedrickster

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Re: Civil Action as Violence
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2010, 05:16:40 PM »

I should clarify a bit, a level of aggression in excess of that already displayed by the motocross track's owner.

So if someone comes at you with a knife, it's immoral to shoot them?

Not at all, that was sort of my point. In this case a civil action given the currently available options, seems like an appropriate level of aggression in response.
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ChristianAnarchist

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Re: Civil Action as Violence
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2010, 08:31:48 PM »

I reject the idea that violence can never be a valid tool.  It depends on the situation.
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