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Poll

In an Alex Jones interview today (you can get 8/28 show from this archive), Ron Paul said they'll try to attack "in the next year or so".  Do you agree?

Yes - during Dubya's administration
- 11 (40.7%)
No - they'll do it in the next administration
- 8 (29.6%)
No - they can't afford another war
- 8 (29.6%)

Total Members Voted: 12


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Author Topic: Will the U.S. attack Iran?  (Read 7897 times)

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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Will the U.S. attack Iran?
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2007, 02:21:26 PM »

Yeah that's bullshit.  The US military is plenty capable of destroying the entire earth, and you think some backfuck poor ass desert shithole can destroy the US military?  If you're trying to make an argument against fighting a war with Iran, then don't pull this bullshit that the US would die a horrible death because of it.  That's definitely a big lie.  Try making an ethical argument instead of a pussy face scaredy cat argument.

Um, dumb ass, we're already stretched thin in two fronts. If you even taken at least one history course regarding warfare then you would know one does not fight two fronts or more in a war. Especially, if you use traditional combat tactics and procedures (bases, fronts, camps, and standing armies). Since you show no experience in military strategy or tactics, nor a lick of historical reference for your claims, then please suck my ignore, asspie.

-- Brede
They're called CRUISE MISSILES and BOMBERS.  Clinton bombed Iraq into a shithole in the 90's there's no reason (besides ethical) that Bush couldn't do the same thing to Iran now.  5 Aircraft carriers carry A LOT of firepower.  Plenty to bomb every government sctructure in Iran to a cinder pile.  Not all wars have to be fought "using traditional combat tactics and procedures blah blah blah".  If every air field in Iran was bombed, every port destroyed (that would happen on day 1 of the bombing campaign), what then?  The skies would be pretty much clear to bomb the hell out of the rest of the country.  No need for tanks, no need for soldiers on the ground.  Bush didn't say he was interested in occupying Iran, he said he was interested in BOMBING IT.  I can easily imagine the US military destroying all of Iran from the air without a single casualty.  Of course there would be plenty of "blowback" and not all the Iranian government jerk offs would be gone and there would be terror and mayhem in the streets.  But do you really think Bush cares about that?
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The Muslim Agorist

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Re: Will the U.S. attack Iran?
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2007, 02:38:47 PM »

They're called CRUISE MISSILES and BOMBERS.  Clinton bombed Iraq into a shithole in the 90's there's no reason (besides ethical) that Bush couldn't do the same thing to Iran now.  5 Aircraft carriers carry A LOT of firepower.  Plenty to bomb every government sctructure in Iran to a cinder pile.  Not all wars have to be fought "using traditional combat tactics and procedures blah blah blah".  If every air field in Iran was bombed, every port destroyed (that would happen on day 1 of the bombing campaign), what then?  The skies would be pretty much clear to bomb the hell out of the rest of the country.  No need for tanks, no need for soldiers on the ground.  Bush didn't say he was interested in occupying Iran, he said he was interested in BOMBING IT.  I can easily imagine the US military destroying all of Iran from the air without a single casualty.  Of course there would be plenty of "blowback" and not all the Iranian government jerk offs would be gone and there would be terror and mayhem in the streets.  But do you really think Bush cares about that?

Here
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ir.html
Go educate yourself... focus on the military section.

BTW... Iran is not a desert. Here's a photo tour I found.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkkt7_dGW-s
Oh yeah, and Iranians are not Arabs either.

Guess what, world affairs are nuanced.

I've got a general question for people.
Maybe you know that poem by Martin Niemöller:
Quote
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

The Muslim community talks about concentration camps not like a scary distopian future, but as an inevitability to be prepared for.

What would you guys do if that happened?
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Will the U.S. attack Iran?
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2007, 02:54:54 PM »

1)I never referred to Iranians as Arabs

2)I never suggested Bush SHOULD bomb Iran, only that if he chose to he could do it with little to no American casualties.  There don't need to be boots on the ground unless you're trying to occupy a country.

3)Iran has a decent military, but in comparison to the US military none can match, especially not Iran's.  They have an army manpower of 800k or so, the US army has 2 million.  And Bush would barely even have to tap any of it, just enough for a few aircraft carriers.  Let's see Iranian aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines capable of launching cruise missiles.
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The Muslim Agorist

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Re: Will the U.S. attack Iran?
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2007, 03:14:00 PM »

1)I never referred to Iranians as Arabs
I was being preemptive

Quote
2)I never suggested Bush SHOULD bomb Iran, only that if he chose to he could do it with little to no American casualties.  There don't need to be boots on the ground unless you're trying to occupy a country.
I never accused you of suggesting that

Quote
3)Iran has a decent military, but in comparison to the US military none can match, especially not Iran's.  They have an army manpower of 800k or so, the US army has 2 million.  And Bush would barely even have to tap any of it, just enough for a few aircraft carriers.  Let's see Iranian aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines capable of launching cruise missiles.
Especially? What's special about Iran's military that makes it particularly incompetent? Let's imagine we do add Iran as a third front... using your numbers that's 2 million / 3 fronts = 666k US vs. 800k Iranian... hmm...

For the record... I've got no love for Iran... they totally freak me out. I'm just saying it's not so simple as "CRUISE MISSILES and BOMBERS"
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Will the U.S. attack Iran?
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2007, 03:18:36 PM »

Quote
3)Iran has a decent military, but in comparison to the US military none can match, especially not Iran's.  They have an army manpower of 800k or so, the US army has 2 million.  And Bush would barely even have to tap any of it, just enough for a few aircraft carriers.  Let's see Iranian aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines capable of launching cruise missiles.
Especially? What's special about Iran's military that makes it particularly incompetent? Let's imagine we do add Iran as a third front... using your numbers that's 2 million /3fronts = 666k US vs. 800k Iranian... hmm...

For the record... I've got no love for Iran... they totally freak me out. I'm just saying it's not so simple as "CRUISE MISSILES and BOMBERS"
But it is, Cruise missiles can be launched from hundreds of miles away, bombers can fly 30k+ feet in the air, and both can wreak havoc and destruction and mayhem at the press of a button.  Bunker buster missiles can destroy dug in encampments and headquarters, etc. etc.  It might cost several (b)million dollars in hardware, but there's little to nothing the Iranian military could do in defense against weapons like those.
On the first day of a bombing campaign every airfield, and every port could be obliterated, how could the Iranian air force or navy even launch an attack back?  All they would be left to do is sit and pray that another cruise missile isn't launched down their chimney.
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"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

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Re: Will the U.S. attack Iran?
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2007, 04:28:43 PM »

http://www.sinodefence.com/army/surfacetoairmissile/hq9.asp

I wonder what "long-range, all-altitude, all-weather, surface-to-air missile defense system" means?

I'm not saying I know anything... that was just a quick google search.

I'm just saying it's idiotic to think that destroying Iran will be as easy as picking your nose.
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ladyattis

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Re: Will the U.S. attack Iran?
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2007, 04:46:16 PM »

Iran's missile systems are Russian and Chinese made, so we got a bit of an issue doing any effective bombing of that nation. Basically, it would be a crapshoot any sorties were to return or not. And using cruise missiles. A 1200 pound bomb costs less to make and deploy per pound than to make and deploy a cruise missile of similar capacities. How do I know this? The Tomahawk is made by my parent's employers: Raytheon. Btw, my mom use to prime the outer shells of the Tomahawks, and my dad as an inspector use to get Raytheon Defense memos all the time as part of its intra-corporate bulletins. So, don't even try your bullshit with me on this.

-- Brede
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The Muslim Agorist

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Re: Will the U.S. attack Iran?
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2007, 04:57:17 PM »

Iran's missile systems are Russian and Chinese made... And using cruise missiles.
-- Brede
[/quote]
The system I linked is the latest out of China, and targets cruise missiles as well as aircraft...

Quote
How do I know this? The Tomahawk is made by my parent's employers: Raytheon.
That's pretty cool. My step dad works for Lockheed... It's good to hear about the latest developments fairly regularly.
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I'm tired of Repeating Myself

Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Will the U.S. attack Iran?
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2007, 06:32:38 PM »

Iran's missile systems are Russian and Chinese made, so we got a bit of an issue doing any effective bombing of that nation. Basically, it would be a crapshoot any sorties were to return or not. And using cruise missiles. A 1200 pound bomb costs less to make and deploy per pound than to make and deploy a cruise missile of similar capacities. How do I know this? The Tomahawk is made by my parent's employers: Raytheon. Btw, my mom use to prime the outer shells of the Tomahawks, and my dad as an inspector use to get Raytheon Defense memos all the time as part of its intra-corporate bulletins. So, don't even try your bullshit with me on this.

-- Brede
I never said it would be cheap, but its not like the government gives a damn.
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"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

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voodoo

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Re: Will the U.S. attack Iran?
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2007, 07:10:33 PM »

How do I know this? The Tomahawk is made by my parent's employers: Raytheon. Btw, my mom use to prime the outer shells of the Tomahawks, and my dad as an inspector use to get Raytheon Defense memos all the time as part of its intra-corporate bulletins. So, don't even try your bullshit with me on this.

-- Brede

Mom's a painter and dad leaves the thank you notes in people's underwear?  Christ, you're a regular von Clausewitz.  Get a map.
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The Muslim Agorist

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Re: Will the U.S. attack Iran?
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2007, 08:04:10 PM »

I never said it would be cheap, but its not like the government gives a damn.

No... you said
Quote
there's little to nothing the Iranian military could do

Face it, you're digging yourself into a hole, and we're tossing in hand grenades. Time to surrender.
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"The Greatest Jihad is to speak a word of truth in the face of a tyrant."
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I'm tired of Repeating Myself

ladyattis

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Re: Will the U.S. attack Iran?
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2007, 08:07:27 PM »

Mom use to be a chem-treat prep person and dad use to be a flight-line inspector and paints the Wichita plant airplanes now?  Christ, you're a regular geek.  Get a dungeon master's manual.

Fixed.

-- Brede
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Will the U.S. attack Iran?
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2007, 10:09:25 PM »

I never said it would be cheap, but its not like the government gives a damn.

No... you said
Quote
there's little to nothing the Iranian military could do

Face it, you're digging yourself into a hole, and we're tossing in hand grenades. Time to surrender.
There's little to nothing the Iranian military could do against cruise missiles, how is that digging into a hole?  Supposedly the US has a missile defense system that works 50% of the time, but that's not realistic and its not like the Iranian military has that or that it would even make a difference to a ton of cruise missiles lobbed from random sites around the world and oceans
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"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

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Re: Will the U.S. attack Iran?
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2007, 11:01:47 PM »

Quote from: http://www.sinodefence.com/army/surfacetoairmissile/hq9.asp
The HQ-9 system reportedly uses a large HT-233 3D C-band mono-pulse planar phased array radar, which operates in the 300MHz bandwidth and has a detection range of 120km and tracking range of 90km. The radar can detect targets in azimuth (360 degrees) and elevation (0 to 65 degrees), and is capable of tracking some 100 airborne targets and simultaneously engaging more than 50 targets. The radar system is carried on a Taian TAS5380 8X8 heavy-duty cross-country vehicle.

Look, it's not like I know what I'm talking about. I just searched the internet to see what was available. I love how you act like Iran is going to be totally caught off guard.
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mikehz

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Re: Will the U.S. attack Iran?
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2007, 11:23:36 PM »

If a Mideast terrorist DID set off a nuke, then things would change in this country fast. At that point, it's no longer a hands-off, friendly little conflict. Suddenly, 90%+ of the U.S. is going to want the Middle East gone, right now! Wavering allies realize they could be next, and rush to line up in support. Occupying a country with no one left in it is fairly easy. Roadside bomb goes off? Seal off the area and sanitize it. See an Arab in the street? Get a rope!

I'm not saying I agree with it, just that this is what I suspect probably what would happen.
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