Which FTL host do you agree with more often?

Ian

22 (42.3%)

Mark

21 (40.4%)

It's about 50-50

7 (13.5%)

I usually don't agree with either one

2 (3.8%)

Total Members Voted: 28

[dalebert]

There are great analogies between religion and government. We've always had them in some form or another. Lots of people, a considerable majority in fact, believe we must have them to have an orderly society. Many people believe the only way to address morality is with religion or government. Meanwhile, there are more and more athiests and the notion of a secular society is becoming mainstream at an amazing rate of speed. Do you think a primarily secular society is possible? I bet very few people would have thought so just a decade or two ago.

Most of us have been brainwashed that we have to have religion for most of our lives, but athiest ideas have become more readily available to counter what would otherwise be a nearly overwhelming immersal in religious idealogy. THe same is true for our indoctrination into thd idea that government is the only way to prevent total chaos. We HAVE to have it. It's simply not true and that concept can snowball the same way that the notion of a secular society has snowballed in recent years. It sound blasphemous to a lot of people right now, even to some minarchists on this board, but eventually it's very possible for people to let go of these deeply ingrained irrational preconceptions about government that they've been brainwashed to accept all their lives.

[jckeyser]

"advocate the goal then accept the compromise, don't advocate the compromise because then you're likly to get a compromised version of the compromise."

Thats more or less how I see it, however uncomfortable compromise makes me.

[Zhwazi]

There are great analogies between religion and government. We've always had them in some form or another. Lots of people, a considerable majority in fact, believe we must have them to have an orderly society. Many people believe the only way to address morality is with religion or government. Meanwhile, there are more and more athiests and the notion of a secular society is becoming mainstream at an amazing rate of speed. Do you think a primarily secular society is possible? I bet very few people would have thought so just a decade or two ago.

Most of us have been brainwashed that we have to have religion for most of our lives, but athiest ideas have become more readily available to counter what would otherwise be a nearly overwhelming immersal in religious idealogy. THe same is true for our indoctrination into thd idea that government is the only way to prevent total chaos. We HAVE to have it. It's simply not true and that concept can snowball the same way that the notion of a secular society has snowballed in recent years. It sound blasphemous to a lot of people right now, even to some minarchists on this board, but eventually it's very possible for people to let go of these deeply ingrained irrational preconceptions about government that they've been brainwashed to accept all their lives.

Anarchism = Political Atheism

I voted Ian.

[AlexLibman]

I just remembered that Mark initially supported the Iraq war, so he goes down a few points...

[dalebert]

One time Ian said something along the lines of "advocate the goal then accept the compromise, don't advocate the compromise because then you're likly to get a compromised version of the compromise."
I believe this applies to minarchism versus free-marketerism debate. We go to minarchism then see if we can go any farther.

And what if the belief that government is a necessity runs counter to the goal of shrinking government?

[Lindsey]

One time Ian said something along the lines of "advocate the goal then accept the compromise, don't advocate the compromise because then you're likly to get a compromised version of the compromise."
I believe this applies to minarchism versus free-marketerism debate. We go to minarchism then see if we can go any farther.

And what if the belief that government is a necessity runs counter to the goal of shrinking government?

Since it's early and I have a pounding headache, I'm still fuzzy on what you're saying...because the belief that government is a necessity pretty much DOES counter the goal of shrinking government.  Not directly, since some of us believe that the lack of government is the answer, and your latter suggestion implies that a small government is still somewhat necessary. 

In other words:  *grunt*

[Porcupine_in_MA]

Ian

[PorkTheOneYouLove]

Bob Ross