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Poll

What was Jesus?

God
- 2 (3%)
Christ
- 4 (6.1%)
Son of God
- 5 (7.6%)
Prophet
- 6 (9.1%)
None of the above
- 46 (69.7%)
All of the above
- 3 (4.5%)

Total Members Voted: 25


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Author Topic: What was Jesus?  (Read 25419 times)

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Taors

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Re: What was Jesus?
« Reply #90 on: December 29, 2006, 10:46:53 AM »

The answer to this question about if God created the universe who created God is quite simple:

God created the universe and the universe, having come from God, is a part OF God. God may be greater than the universe, but God is the universe too, and depending on your definition of "universe", that concept may actually be the whole of God.

Then the question becomes, "well is he a conscious God?" I think he is, but some will differ. But you can't have a "who created 'God' question" because that's not a real question--God by definition of the word is the greatest power that always was, no matter what human attributes are given Him. So by logic, nothing could have created him, but the definition of God being more nebulous, further questions arise such as, "is he self-conscious? Did he intend to make the universe? Is he a Christian God?"

If there is no God and there's only a universe then the forces of the universe are God. If there's a God greater than the universe but is still of the universe then THAT is God.

So the whole argument about God is a dodge, because he is inherently not definable. The question is, what is the nature of the larger consciousness--aware or unaware--by which I stake my claim on aware, for the record.

Ever read the book It by Stephen King? I just call it The Turtle.
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Bill Brasky

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Re: What was Jesus?
« Reply #91 on: December 29, 2006, 11:11:09 AM »

Isnt that the dark tower ? 

Or is he all turtle-wacky.
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Taors

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Re: What was Jesus?
« Reply #92 on: December 29, 2006, 12:10:25 PM »

Isnt that the dark tower ? 

Or is he all turtle-wacky.

He appears in both, but under a different name in TDT.
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mikehz

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Re: What was Jesus?
« Reply #93 on: December 29, 2006, 12:32:29 PM »

I'm reading the series right now, and just started book #4. Yeah, there is The Turtle.
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Rillion

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Re: What was Jesus?
« Reply #94 on: December 29, 2006, 01:05:25 PM »

If there is no God and there's only a universe then the forces of the universe are God. If there's a God greater than the universe but is still of the universe then THAT is God.


I quit being a pantheist because I didn't see any point in worshiping that which didn't care about being worshiped.  If you want to name the universe God, go ahead....but to my mind that's like naming a piece of toast.  You could call it Ralph instead and it wouldn't make a difference. 

Quote
So the whole argument about God is a dodge, because he is inherently not definable. The question is, what is the nature of the larger consciousness--aware or unaware--by which I stake my claim on aware, for the record.

And what exactly do you mean when you say that "the nature of the larger consciousness is aware"?
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Taors

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Re: What was Jesus?
« Reply #95 on: December 29, 2006, 01:10:40 PM »

I'm reading the series right now, and just started book #4. Yeah, there is The Turtle.

Have you read It?
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Bill Brasky

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Re: What was Jesus?
« Reply #96 on: December 29, 2006, 02:22:34 PM »

I'm reading the series right now, and just started book #4. Yeah, there is The Turtle.

Have you read It?

For me, its been a while.  Probly ten years, maybe more.  I remember the barrons, and thats pretty much it. 

And a clown.  Pennywise.  No dopplegangers.  They live elsewhere. 

If you look at the whole big sombitch, everything.  Its interesting how the threads are all interwoven.  You'll have this story moving along, and this guy from another story will just go marching across the scene like "hey, how ya doin guys? I'm on my way to get royally fucked up in that book over there, ten years from now, seeya then !" 

Pretty cool. 
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Taors

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Re: What was Jesus?
« Reply #97 on: December 29, 2006, 02:37:25 PM »

I'm reading the series right now, and just started book #4. Yeah, there is The Turtle.

Have you read It?

For me, its been a while.  Probly ten years, maybe more.  I remember the barrons, and thats pretty much it. 

And a clown.  Pennywise.  No dopplegangers.  They live elsewhere. 

If you look at the whole big sombitch, everything.  Its interesting how the threads are all interwoven.  You'll have this story moving along, and this guy from another story will just go marching across the scene like "hey, how ya doin guys? I'm on my way to get royally fucked up in that book over there, ten years from now, seeya then !" 

Pretty cool. 

Most of his books are tied together in some way. The dancing elves in the house on Neibolt Street in It are also seen in The Drawing of the Three when Jake goes into the abandoned house that leads to Roland's world, and the Crimson King is seen in most of his novels in different variations.
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Brian Wolf

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Re: What was Jesus?
« Reply #98 on: December 29, 2006, 04:03:22 PM »

"See the TURTLE of enormous girth!
On his shell he holds the earth.
His thought is slow but always kind;
He holds us all within his mind.
On his back all vows are made;
He sees the truth but mayn't aid.
He loves the land and loves the sea,
And even loves a child like me."
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Brian Wolf

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Re: What was Jesus?
« Reply #99 on: December 30, 2006, 01:36:24 AM »

If there is no God and there's only a universe then the forces of the universe are God. If there's a God greater than the universe but is still of the universe then THAT is God.


I quit being a pantheist because I didn't see any point in worshiping that which didn't care about being worshiped.  If you want to name the universe God, go ahead....but to my mind that's like naming a piece of toast.  You could call it Ralph instead and it wouldn't make a difference.


I never really worshiped "God" (at least not since I was a kid) but if I found out that the universe was aware of itself, I would still revere the thing. Not worship but reverence. It would be a truly amazing being.

Quote
So the whole argument about God is a dodge, because he is inherently not definable. The question is, what is the nature of the larger consciousness--aware or unaware--by which I stake my claim on aware, for the record.
Quote
And what exactly do you mean when you say that "the nature of the larger consciousness is aware"?

I took it to mean it is aware of itself as an entity.
Maybe he means that it is aware of the minute goings-on of every particle of itself as well. I am not sure.

This is a interesting thought experiment. But I don't think it really matters in the grand scheme of things. We will not find out the answers to these question in our lifetime.

May as well have a little fun while we are here, and if we can learn a little about the true nature of the world/universe to pass on to our children, then more the better.
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: What was Jesus?
« Reply #100 on: January 04, 2007, 03:42:49 AM »

There is no Jesus. There is the one and only goddess, Suzumiya Haruhi. Subscribe to Haruhi-ism!
I'll subscribe!  Where do I go to sign my name in the book of Suzumiya Haruhi?
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: What was Jesus?
« Reply #101 on: January 04, 2007, 03:44:21 AM »

The answer to this question about if God created the universe who created God is quite simple:

God created the universe and the universe, having come from God, is a part OF God. God may be greater than the universe, but God is the universe too, and depending on your definition of "universe", that concept may actually be the whole of God.

Then the question becomes, "well is he a conscious God?" I think he is, but some will differ. But you can't have a "who created 'God' question" because that's not a real question--God by definition of the word is the greatest power that always was, no matter what human attributes are given Him. So by logic, nothing could have created him, but the definition of God being more nebulous, further questions arise such as, "is he self-conscious? Did he intend to make the universe? Is he a Christian God?"

If there is no God and there's only a universe then the forces of the universe are God. If there's a God greater than the universe but is still of the universe then THAT is God.

So the whole argument about God is a dodge, because he is inherently not definable. The question is, what is the nature of the larger consciousness--aware or unaware--by which I stake my claim on aware, for the record.
Thank you for having more patience than me and taking the time to express the idea with greater clarity.
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"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: What was Jesus?
« Reply #102 on: January 04, 2007, 03:49:07 AM »

Its already broken.  You havent even posed an argument, really, all you've done is regurgitate both sides of an argument. 
The universe must have been created by something.  What can that something be besides God?  You haven't made any argument besides a claim.  You haven't tried to back up the claim.  You get an F.

So there was something that created something out of nothing?

Not really seeing the physics on this one, Jim.
Call it whatever you want to call it, but it still is the same thing.  The entirety of the universe.  There must have been a starting point of the universe, because everything has a starting point.  What initiated the universe and set all of the laws of physics and science and chemistry (most of which we have yet to learn) is what I refer to as God.  Do you argue that there was no starting point to the existence of the Universe?  If there was no starting point, then how could the universe even exist in the first place?  If you cede that there must have been a starting point to the universe, then you also must cede that whatever created it is God.  Does that mean that there is some creature out there that could read your mind and manipulate your actions?  Possibly, but highly unlikely and this is the point where I debate against evangelist christians.
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"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Bill Brasky

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Re: What was Jesus?
« Reply #103 on: January 04, 2007, 04:03:43 AM »

Infinity stretches in all directions, both negative and positive.  If something has no end, it cannot have a beginning.  Otherwise, it is finite. 
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: What was Jesus?
« Reply #104 on: January 04, 2007, 05:43:10 AM »

How can something that did not have a starting point exist?
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"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower
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