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Poll

What is your Religion

Atheism
- 19 (24.4%)
Christianity
- 7 (9%)
Jewish
- 1 (1.3%)
Catholic
- 1 (1.3%)
Hinduism
- 0 (0%)
Buddhism
- 1 (1.3%)
Rastafarianism
- 1 (1.3%)
Islam
- 3 (3.8%)
Taoism
- 1 (1.3%)
Neopaganism / Pagan
- 4 (5.1%)
Satanism
- 1 (1.3%)
Scientology
- 0 (0%)
Wiccan
- 0 (0%)
Pastafarian
- 0 (0%)
Animistic
- 0 (0%)
All Religions :D
- 1 (1.3%)
No Religion / Not Religious
- 19 (24.4%)
None of these
- 11 (14.1%)
Pantheism
- 2 (2.6%)
Judaism
- 2 (2.6%)
Asatru / Norse Gods
- 2 (2.6%)
Discordian/Subgenius
- 1 (1.3%)
Pantheist
- 1 (1.3%)
Government
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 44

Voting closes: December 20, 2035, 01:27:29 PM


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Author Topic: What is your Religion  (Read 53070 times)

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blackie

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #210 on: August 14, 2008, 11:06:38 PM »


One thing I have always wondered about as a Jew is why the Xtians [sic] don't keep kosher, if they believe in the Bible.
 
.
I wonder why many jews don't.


But paul said it was OK not to be kosher. I never liked paul. It was easier to convert pagans with less rules.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2008, 11:11:41 PM by Blackie »
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Taors

  • Guest
Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #211 on: August 15, 2008, 09:04:22 AM »

Those laws only apply to Jews, and besides you're taking some of them out of context.

If Christians say the bible is the word of god, and that shit is in the bible, then I'm going to assume they think that shit applies to them. Whether you think it applies to them or not is a non issue. If they are Christians who say that the OT doesn't apply/doesn't matter, then I'm curious as to what evidence they have to dispute the religious veracity of the OT that doesn't discount the NT.

How does the context I missed out dispute the face value of those passages?

Even if 1 in 10 of those were right (and there are a hell of alot of other ones), then that's still a whole fuckload of rape, slavery, murder and bigotry.

A Christian, by definition, is someone who believes in and follows the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Did you see any teachings of Jesus Christ in the Old Testament?
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The Muslim Agorist

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #212 on: August 15, 2008, 09:27:38 AM »

A Christian, by definition, is someone who believes in and follows the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Did you see any teachings of Jesus Christ in the Old Testament?

John 7:16
Jesus answered them and said, My doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me.


Yes... I do find the doctrine of He who sent Jesus Christ in the Old Testament.

John 5:30
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father


Also found in the Old Testament.
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The Muslim Agorist

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #213 on: August 15, 2008, 09:36:23 AM »

I think you and I might be on a similar page - I consider myself a pre-Nicaean Christian in that I don't believe that just because a bunch of bureaucrats decided that the books of Biblical canon were the inerrant word of God, that that makes it so. I furthermore reject all forms of hierarchy within the Church.

So does that mean your a Unitarian, or do you accept the Trinity?

I see little difference between Islam and pre-Nicaean Unitarian Christianity.
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"The Greatest Jihad is to speak a word of truth in the face of a tyrant."
~Prophet Muhammad

I'm tired of Repeating Myself

Taors

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #214 on: August 15, 2008, 10:09:41 AM »

A Christian, by definition, is someone who believes in and follows the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Did you see any teachings of Jesus Christ in the Old Testament?

John 7:16
Jesus answered them and said, My doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me.


Yes... I do find the doctrine of He who sent Jesus Christ in the Old Testament.

John 5:30
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father


Also found in the Old Testament.


Okay, but neither of those quotes come from the actual Old Testament.
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Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #215 on: August 15, 2008, 11:55:01 AM »


One thing I have always wondered about as a Jew is why the Xtians [sic] don't keep kosher, if they believe in the Bible.
 
.
I wonder why many jews don't.


But paul said it was OK not to be kosher. I never liked paul. It was easier to convert pagans with less rules.


So it went something like this:

Pagan 1; Man, this Paul guy is a damn good speaker, but his book is really hard

Pagan2: yeah, there are a lot of rules in it and stuff. I dont want to do it.

Pagan 1: and its so long too. Theres like 2 whole parts to it. Oh man, this is gonna take me forever to read, and first I have to learn to read.

Pagan 3: Naw, you dont have to DO the stuff in the first half, its in there for like.... show and stuff. Paul says you can ignore all the stuff about what you have to do, and as long as you believe in the second half, youre cool.

as for Jews who dont keep kosher, they need to start, its not like the have another option.
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The Muslim Agorist

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #216 on: August 15, 2008, 12:02:20 PM »

So it went something like this:

Pagan 1; Man, this Paul guy is a damn good speaker, but his book is really hard

Pagan2: yeah, there are a lot of rules in it and stuff. I dont want to do it.

Pagan 1: and its so long too. Theres like 2 whole parts to it. Oh man, this is gonna take me forever to read, and first I have to learn to read.

Pagan 3: Naw, you dont have to DO the stuff in the first half, its in there for like.... show and stuff. Paul says you can ignore all the stuff about what you have to do, and as long as you believe in the second half, youre cool.

as for Jews who dont keep kosher, they need to start, its not like the have another option.

+1
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"The Greatest Jihad is to speak a word of truth in the face of a tyrant."
~Prophet Muhammad

I'm tired of Repeating Myself

Taors

  • Guest
Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #217 on: August 15, 2008, 12:25:03 PM »


One thing I have always wondered about as a Jew is why the Xtians [sic] don't keep kosher, if they believe in the Bible.
 
.
I wonder why many jews don't.


But paul said it was OK not to be kosher. I never liked paul. It was easier to convert pagans with less rules.


So it went something like this:

Pagan 1; Man, this Paul guy is a damn good speaker, but his book is really hard

Pagan2: yeah, there are a lot of rules in it and stuff. I dont want to do it.

Pagan 1: and its so long too. Theres like 2 whole parts to it. Oh man, this is gonna take me forever to read, and first I have to learn to read.

Pagan 3: Naw, you dont have to DO the stuff in the first half, its in there for like.... show and stuff. Paul says you can ignore all the stuff about what you have to do, and as long as you believe in the second half, youre cool.

as for Jews who dont keep kosher, they need to start, its not like the have another option.

If this wasn't a pretty accurate description of how most Christians act today, I would lambast your assertion that the ancient pagan cults and religions were stupid, or moronic in any way.
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Porcupine_in_MA

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #218 on: August 15, 2008, 02:29:50 PM »

In most conversion of ancient heathenism there wasn't much discussion and much sword , spear and axe...Axes for chopping down the holy groves, trees and god-statues in my heathen ancestors lands.
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Taors

  • Guest
Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #219 on: August 15, 2008, 03:11:41 PM »

In most conversion of ancient heathenism there wasn't much discussion and much sword , spear and axe...Axes for chopping down the holy groves, trees and god-statues in my heathen ancestors lands.

Yep. It was pretty brutal stuff.

Not that the pagans don't have their share of blood on their hands either, though...
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Porcupine_in_MA

  • Guest
Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #220 on: August 15, 2008, 03:34:49 PM »

Yeah, but not over trying to convert folk. Just stupid wars over territory and other things yeah.
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The Muslim Agorist

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #221 on: August 15, 2008, 03:53:39 PM »

Yep. It was pretty brutal stuff.

Not that the pagans don't have their share of blood on their hands either, though...

You know, I was thinking about this after I arrived at that statistic. 1 in every 2000 Muslims are on the Terrorist Watch list. Because there are more than 2000 people in my community here. So I started thinking to myself... who's the terrorist? Now first off... let me caveat this by saying that I don't know anyone who is actually violent or plotting. But two people came to mind. The first is this crazy old Egyptian man that sits in the mosque and spouts off stuff like, clapping is a sin because the West came up with it and Muhammad never did it. Like he calls the Imam a hypocrite because he gives his sermon from a podium and the podium is a Western innovation, not Islamic. He's a hard nosed Salafi and everyone in the community knows and warns people not to listen to him. The other is a guy is a recent convert who romanticises terrorist violence... and sometimes it's spooky. I know more than a handful of people who think he's a government plant, because is family is all bureaucrats. I don't believe this because I've seen how he lives, where he works, etc. I've taken it upon myself to get close to him, and attempt to redirect his thinking. And if he ever proposed any kind of plot I'd turn him in in a heartbeat.

I've been thinking about this compaired to my old pagan community, which was only about one tenth the size. But I can think probably 10 people from those days that romanticised violence the way this guy does, mainly targeting Christians. I saw alot of resentment toward Christianity for medieval forced conversions... weird. Anyway, the worst of them actually spoke as if he planned to renew an old Native American tradition (which I think he fabricated) of sending out your warriors until they reached a village that spoke a different language and then killing everyone and returning with their wealth and women. He wanted to build a compound and Arizona, and there were a handful of people who liked the way he spoke. It was never going to happen, but the propensity was there. As a rival community leader I took it upon myself to sew the seeds of discord in his "family." Today we're still friends and he's mellowed out alot since having children.

But to me it begs the question, if there were 2 billion pagans in the world would they be more or less violent than Muslims? How would that resentment manifest if guys like this had a critical mass of followers?

I'm not suggesting paganism is inherently violent. I find it to be one of the most peaceful and tolerent perspectives on the planet. I just have theological disagreements. I'm just wondering if isn't enevitable to flind lunatics with followers in any demographic of 2 billion. What would we see in a world with 2 billion atheists? We have a very insulated view of Christianity here in the US... I wonder if we'd even recognize the Christianity in places like Sudan and Ethiopia.

Just thinking out loud.
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"The Greatest Jihad is to speak a word of truth in the face of a tyrant."
~Prophet Muhammad

I'm tired of Repeating Myself

Porcupine_in_MA

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #222 on: August 15, 2008, 05:53:58 PM »

Just so you know saying "pagans" or "paganism" as if you're talking about a single belief or group is folly.  I was going to point that out to Josh because in his post stating "pagans have a share of blood on their hands" seems to imply there was a group called "pagans" acting as a group in ancient times. There were folk who followed the traditional religions of their culture and that was most folk and then there were the weird cultists called Christians and Muslims who believed that there was only one god and that one god was theirs.
 Your average joe back then who was not part of one of the new religions wasn't interested in trying to go and convert anyone to his belief system. I don't know of any of the old non-Abrahamic religions that wanted to convert anyone, let alone convert anyone by sword and spear.
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The Muslim Agorist

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #223 on: August 15, 2008, 06:16:31 PM »

Just so you know saying "pagans" or "paganism" as if you're talking about a single belief or group is folly.

I know, sorry. I was sacrificing accuracy for brevity. When I was "pagan" I rejected the term in favor of "heathen." When people started pushing the term "neo-pagan" I rejected it for "retro-heathen." I'm not really talking about ancient peoples. I'm talking about today's pagan population, in all it's distinct traditions. But my point was not about paganism specifically, that just happens to be non-Muslim community I have the most first hand experience with. My point... well really my question... was about the perception created by the minority in huge demographics.
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"The Greatest Jihad is to speak a word of truth in the face of a tyrant."
~Prophet Muhammad

I'm tired of Repeating Myself

Porcupine_in_MA

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #224 on: August 15, 2008, 06:23:14 PM »

It's the same way today. I don't use the term "pagan" for myself for several reasons. One its just ridiculously broad and mostly "pagan" is used as "neo-pagan" or "Wiccan". Which is not what I am. Most neo-pagans and/or Wiccan's I've met tend to be socialist and a little on the kooky, ultra-feminist side. While most Asatruar/Germanic Heathens I've met tend to either be libertarian or paleo-conservative.
 As far as Islam goes, you can't even say "Muslim" and be accurate when calling someone "Muslim" right? I mean aren't there quite a few Muslim traditions within Islam? Sunni, Shia and others?
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