What is your Religion

Atheism

19 (24.4%)

Christianity

7 (9%)

Jewish

1 (1.3%)

Catholic

1 (1.3%)

Hinduism

0 (0%)

Buddhism

1 (1.3%)

Rastafarianism

1 (1.3%)

Islam

3 (3.8%)

Taoism

1 (1.3%)

Neopaganism / Pagan

4 (5.1%)

Satanism

1 (1.3%)

Scientology

0 (0%)

Wiccan

0 (0%)

Pastafarian

0 (0%)

Animistic

0 (0%)

All Religions

1 (1.3%)

No Religion / Not Religious

19 (24.4%)

None of these

11 (14.1%)

Pantheism

2 (2.6%)

Judaism

2 (2.6%)

Asatru / Norse Gods

2 (2.6%)

Discordian/Subgenius

1 (1.3%)

Pantheist

1 (1.3%)

Government

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 44

Voting closes: December 20, 2035, 01:27:29 PM

[blackie]

 

[hellbilly]

Blackie's in depth reply suggests no belly button.

[Taors]

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

Hey fatcat- what's good about this thread is that at least we aren't stuck discussing this stuff with christians only. Instead, it seems we have some of the more liberal representatives from various faiths..

...

 just so long as a person believes in "some" god - it's a-okay! Just don't get caught believing in "no god" cause then you'd be some intolerant freak.

I don't care if you don't believe in God, just so long as you don't proselytize me about it. Or repeatedly try to convert me to atheism as fatcat has been doing.

I'd like the various liberal representatives to answer a question-

Did Adam & Eve, or whoever the various first humans were in your storybook, have belly buttons? Yeah, it's a serious question.

Evolution dude.

[The Muslim Agorist]

I'm not liberal, I'm a fundamentalist, as in I adhere to the fundamentals. And that's a silly question. I have no opinion about it.

Christians and Jews and Muslims worship the same God... I've only heard Evangelicals dispute this. We disagree about points of law, points of theology and points of history.

Believing that the pagan gods exist doesn't make worshiping them "dandy." Believing the God of the Bible and Allah are the same Being does not make worshiping Jesus "dandy." Worshiping other than the Creator is the only sin more egregious than disbelief. But these are finer points of Islamic theology, and I don't expect them to believe the same as me. We can disagree, and I can think they are astray, and they can think I'm astray without resorting to insult and disrespect.

[hellbilly]

Evolution dude.

Judaism- Denial of evolution is a defining characteristic of education in Orthodox Judaism. But what does the most modern segment of Orthodox Judaism — the small number of students permitted to go to a public university and be exposed to non-censored scientific knowledge — believe about evolution and other scientific issues? The sample of 176 Orthodox Jewish students surveyed showed almost complete denial of evolution and other central tenets of modern science (such as the age of the universe); the survey also revealed that these students received their scientific beliefs not from their college science courses, but from rabbinical authorities, or from Orthodox Jewish scientists, who in turn propagate the anti-science views of rabbinical authorities. Perhaps the most surprising result of the survey was that the Orthodox Jewish students who were science majors were even less accepting of mainstream science than those who were not science majors.

Pantheism- The most important modern version of pantheism is that of Baruch Spinoza. For him nature is infinite, but because the only being capable of genuine infinity is God, God must be identical, in essence, with nature. In the 18th and 19th centuries the various forms of Idealism sometimes tended toward pantheism, often in the form of a theory of cosmic evolution.

Christianity- ‘People seem to think that Christianity and evolution do or can go together. But I suggest this is only possible for the intellectually schizophrenic. Biological theory does not require or allow any sort of divine guidance for the evolutionary process …’.
David Oldroyd,

Islam- I won't comment much on Darwin's theories, because I don't know enough about it.  But it is quite clear that the theory of Evolution has no support in Islam.   Let us look at the proof:

Allah Almighty created the first man of Mankind on Earth from scratch.  He didn't evolve him from any other GOD's creation:  "Behold, thy Lord said to the Angels: 'I will create a vicegerent on earth.'...(The Noble Quran, 2:34)"



In fairness, in my quick google search for these quotes (which lasted 6 days or 6 eons, depending on your preferred translation of your preferred religious text)- it's shocking, but I did also find quotes that say evolution is compatible with each of those four religions! Which just goes to show what a mucked up jumble this folly is comprised of. Even the fucking scholars can't decide what the fuck is true, so it's no wonder the masses of believers are melding together to form one big mush of everything-goes.

Pantheism was the only "religion" that didn't reject evolution. But it's so friendly it doesn't reject anything.

[hellbilly]

I'm not liberal, I'm a fundamentalist, as in I adhere to the fundamentals. And that's a silly question. I have no opinion about it.

Christians and Jews and Muslims worship the same God... I've only heard Evangelicals dispute this. We disagree about points of law, points of theology and points of history.

Believing that the pagan gods exist doesn't make worshiping them "dandy." Believing the God of the Bible and Allah are the same Being does not make worshiping Jesus "dandy." Worshiping other than the Creator is the only sin more egregious than disbelief. But these are finer points of Islamic theology, and I don't expect them to believe the same as me. We can disagree, and I can think they are astray, and they can think I'm astray without resorting to insult and disrespect.

It isn't a silly question. If the first couple had belly buttons - why? If they did not have belly buttons.. then why do I (and I presume you do as well).

What is the proper name of the "Creator" that you refer to?

[The Muslim Agorist]

Islam- I won't comment much on Darwin's theories, because I don't know enough about it.  But it is quite clear that the theory of Evolution has no support in Islam.   Let us look at the proof:

Allah Almighty created the first man of Mankind on Earth from scratch.  He didn't evolve him from any other GOD's creation:  "Behold, thy Lord said to the Angels: 'I will create a vicegerent on earth.'...(The Noble Quran, 2:34)"

From what I've seen micro evolution is widely accepted, and macro evolution is split. It doesn't surprise me that scholars haven't come to an agreement about it because it's not explicit in the text, religious scholars don't tend to be scientists, and It's just not theologically relevant. Evolution neither coincides nor contradicts the Quran. I don't know what Quran you're reading, but my chapter 2:34 is different.

I'm looking at three translations and non of them contain the word "scratch" anywhere. The Quran says that all life was created from earth, water, and mud in different verses... as far as I can tell this is consistent with evolution, which agrees that life began from some kind of primordial soup. But evolution doesn't describe biogenesis. The origin of life is still unknown. Micro evolution describes mutations within the genome of a single species. Muslims accept this. Macro Evolution describes speciation from simple forms to complex forms. Some Muslims deny this entirely, others accept it with conditions of divine orchestration. I suspend judgment. I've taken classes on evolution, both in highschool and college, and I see it as a salient theory, but I have questions about it that anthropologists haven't answered. For example, if a species is defined as animals which can interbreed and produce fertile offspring, than for evolution to produce another species at some point some animal must have produces young which could not interbreed with it's parent species... if so, who did they breed with? How does a mother and father with 13 chromosomes produce young only 12 who are fertile when all such genetic mutations are not viable? I'm an evolution agnostic, not an evolution denier

Even the fucking scholars scientists can't decide what the fuck is true

[hellbilly]

It isn't my quran.

The quotes came after the word "scratch".

Thanks for the broad explanation that basically says that the various sect scholars have yet to form a decision.

Even the fucking scholars scientists can't decide what the fuck is true

Your "fix" contradicts your long explanation that says the various sect scholars have yet to form a decision.

Two things are always certain though-

One- someone is not going to make it to heaven because they didn't do something right according to some religious law.

Two- only chosen parts of what I type are ever addressed.

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

Evolution dude.

Judaism- Denial of evolution is a defining characteristic of education in Orthodox Judaism. But what does the most modern segment of Orthodox Judaism — the small number of students permitted to go to a public university and be exposed to non-censored scientific knowledge — believe about evolution and other scientific issues? The sample of 176 Orthodox Jewish students surveyed showed almost complete denial of evolution and other central tenets of modern science (such as the age of the universe); the survey also revealed that these students received their scientific beliefs not from their college science courses, but from rabbinical authorities, or from Orthodox Jewish scientists, who in turn propagate the anti-science views of rabbinical authorities. Perhaps the most surprising result of the survey was that the Orthodox Jewish students who were science majors were even less accepting of mainstream science than those who were not science majors.

I dunno about that, the rabbi at the Chassidic synagogue I enjoy that's just down the street from me doesn't dispute evolution.  I've had some good talks with him and taken some classes that he taught, specifically Sinai Scholars, and even though he knows I'm Reform and not Chassidic (probably the most orthodox Jew you can get), he agreed with me on evolution and said that in his opinion there's nowhere in the Torah that would dispute it.  Of course Judaism is decentralized, there's no pope figure who hands down decrees and all Jews are considered theologically equal and encouraged to study Torah individually, but he agreed with me and he was in San Diego Magazine's top 10 most influential people in San Diego.  I'm skeptical about statistics like that as I've never met a fellow Jew who disagrees with any mainstream scientific belief, and you know the stereotype I'm sure--Jews network with each other.  I know a veritable shitload of Jews.

[hellbilly]

I hear ya..

I've got to put these topics aside soon.. spending way too much time on this stuff. Plus all the conversations are degrading into Assholism - the one true human faith!

Not saying yer an asshole BTW..

[Taors]

I hear ya..

I've got to put these topics aside soon.. spending way too much time on this stuff. Plus all the conversations are degrading into Assholism - the one true human faith!

Not saying yer an asshole BTW..

Huh? I haven't seen anyone being an asshole in this thread.

[hellbilly]

Nah- I was thinking of the one with me and Nonarchist. It's not really about learning anything as much as it is proving something now- both of us.

[Taors]

Nah- I was thinking of the one with me and Nonarchist. It's not really about learning anything as much as it is proving something now- both of us.

If that's what you think, then you're the one making it that way.

I suggest you change that.

[hellbilly]

Bullshit.