Welcome to the Free Talk Live bulletin board system!
This board is closed to new users and new posts.  Thank you to all our great mods and users over the years.  Details here.
185859 Posts in 9829 Topics by 1371 Members
Latest Member: cjt26
Home Help
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  The Polling Pit
| | |-+  What is your Religion

Poll

What is your Religion

Atheism
- 19 (24.4%)
Christianity
- 7 (9%)
Jewish
- 1 (1.3%)
Catholic
- 1 (1.3%)
Hinduism
- 0 (0%)
Buddhism
- 1 (1.3%)
Rastafarianism
- 1 (1.3%)
Islam
- 3 (3.8%)
Taoism
- 1 (1.3%)
Neopaganism / Pagan
- 4 (5.1%)
Satanism
- 1 (1.3%)
Scientology
- 0 (0%)
Wiccan
- 0 (0%)
Pastafarian
- 0 (0%)
Animistic
- 0 (0%)
All Religions :D
- 1 (1.3%)
No Religion / Not Religious
- 19 (24.4%)
None of these
- 11 (14.1%)
Pantheism
- 2 (2.6%)
Judaism
- 2 (2.6%)
Asatru / Norse Gods
- 2 (2.6%)
Discordian/Subgenius
- 1 (1.3%)
Pantheist
- 1 (1.3%)
Government
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 44

Voting closes: December 20, 2035, 01:27:29 PM


Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 21   Go Down

Author Topic: What is your Religion  (Read 53052 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Taors

  • Guest
Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #120 on: August 08, 2008, 10:10:18 AM »

Name one benefit religion brings that cannot be achieved by secular means.

That's like asking to name one benefit homosexuality brings that cannot be achieved by heterosexual means.

What I mean is, is that religion, and for that matter, spirituality, is a personal preference. Just like homosexuality and heterosexuality are sexual preferences, religion is a certain paradigm preference. We all have our own paradigms - our own set of mores, morals, beliefs, and values (and perceptions of reality) - that are different from everyone else's, but religions are really just a subset of paradigms. They unify and centralize certain paradigms (which is why I am not religious myself). There's nothing wrong with any of this - it's all preference. Human beings always see reality how they want to, and having a personal preference in what you believe is just how things are. Some people take it to the extreme, and some people don't.

No one needs religion, just like they don't need governments. A religion is just a unified way of perceiving the Universe and how it works, like governments are a unified method of protecting rights and property.
Logged

The Muslim Agorist

  • FTL Creative Team
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1270
  • Join the Counter Economy
    • View Profile
    • The San Francisco Muslim Examiner
Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #121 on: August 08, 2008, 11:01:21 AM »

That's like asking to name one benefit homosexuality brings that cannot be achieved by heterosexual means.

That is a great line... poetry my friend...
Logged
"The Greatest Jihad is to speak a word of truth in the face of a tyrant."
~Prophet Muhammad

I'm tired of Repeating Myself

Porcupine_in_MA

  • Guest
Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #122 on: August 08, 2008, 11:02:38 AM »

That's like asking to name one benefit homosexuality brings that cannot be achieved by heterosexual means.

What I mean is, is that religion, and for that matter, spirituality, is a personal preference. Just like homosexuality and heterosexuality are sexual preferences, religion is a certain paradigm preference. We all have our own paradigms - our own set of mores, morals, beliefs, and values (and perceptions of reality) - that are different from everyone else's, but religions are really just a subset of paradigms. They unify and centralize certain paradigms (which is why I am not religious myself). There's nothing wrong with any of this - it's all preference. Human beings always see reality how they want to, and having a personal preference in what you believe is just how things are. Some people take it to the extreme, and some people don't.

No one needs religion, just like they don't need governments. A religion is just a unified way of perceiving the Universe and how it works, like governments are a unified method of protecting rights and property.

This whole reply was extremely well thought out and insightful. Well done Josh.
Logged

Taors

  • Guest
Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #123 on: August 08, 2008, 12:47:35 PM »

That's like asking to name one benefit homosexuality brings that cannot be achieved by heterosexual means.

What I mean is, is that religion, and for that matter, spirituality, is a personal preference. Just like homosexuality and heterosexuality are sexual preferences, religion is a certain paradigm preference. We all have our own paradigms - our own set of mores, morals, beliefs, and values (and perceptions of reality) - that are different from everyone else's, but religions are really just a subset of paradigms. They unify and centralize certain paradigms (which is why I am not religious myself). There's nothing wrong with any of this - it's all preference. Human beings always see reality how they want to, and having a personal preference in what you believe is just how things are. Some people take it to the extreme, and some people don't.

No one needs religion, just like they don't need governments. A religion is just a unified way of perceiving the Universe and how it works, like governments are a unified method of protecting rights and property.

This whole reply was extremely well thought out and insightful. Well done Josh.

Thanks.

Paradigms can be a lot of fun. Ask any chaos magician (which I'm not).
« Last Edit: August 08, 2008, 12:52:04 PM by Vardøger »
Logged

DogOn

  • Guest
Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #124 on: August 08, 2008, 02:02:16 PM »

Name one benefit religion brings that cannot be achieved by secular means.

That's like asking to name one benefit homosexuality brings that cannot be achieved by heterosexual means.

no. sexuality is just a preference, it supports nor supplies any ideas. Believing in a religion requires you to believe things, its not just a taste or preference. Every religion requires you to accept or deny certain factual claims about reality. beliefs =! preference. I already outlined the hazards of religion, how it has indisputably been used to destroy and restrict scientific research.

You completely failed to answer what I said.

My point was:

1. Religion has facilitated negative acts that would have otherwise not occurred. There's no reason to burn books/lock up people that dispute what the Koran or the Bible says if you did not believe what those books say.

2.There is nothing positive about religion that you can't get via non religious means. Peace of mind, moral guidance, hope, every single claim I've heard for the benefits of religion can be found without having to believe in supernatural claims.

3. From points 1 + 2, at best religion is no more positive than non-religion, at worst it is harmful. Even if you don't accept religious belief has EVER led to bad choices, then at best it is still only as good as non religion, which makes it a useless set of beliefs. Not that beliefs need to have a use, I'm just making the point.

If you want to believe in some improvable deity, then go ahead, I never made the claim that you shouldn't be allowed to believe in whatever you want, this was not my point. Since most religions deal with inherently intangible and ineffectual subjects (souls, gods, heavens and hells that can't be reached in the 'living' universe, anything that can't actually be measured), it seems pretty futile to me to spend any amount of time considering something that cannot be proved, and has no actual effect on your life that can't be achieved via non religion. The very fact that to accept one religion you have to dismiss dozens of others which have exactly the same amount of proof is enough to make the whole thing seem very asinine.

Now answer my original point please. One benefit that religion brings that cannot be gained by non religious means.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2008, 02:34:53 PM by fatcat »
Logged

Porcupine_in_MA

  • Guest
Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #125 on: August 08, 2008, 02:48:56 PM »

The very fact that to accept one religion you have to dismiss dozens of others which have exactly the same amount of proof is enough to make the whole thing seem very asinine.

Not all religions require you to dismiss other religions. This is exactly the issue that brought me to an impasse of discussion when dealing with born again Christians specifically. I would explain to the BAC that I, in fact, believe that their god exists, it's just that Yahweh isn't one that I hold faith in. Then the BAC would either say that my gods don't exist because there is only one god (theirs) in their view or mine are "demons".
Since said BAC was not interested in hearing any other viewpoints, and was more interested in trying to show me how I was bad for my views and that I was going to burn in a fiery pit somewhere. Impasse. Also, not worth my time trying to talk with said BAC about these things.
Logged

DogOn

  • Guest
Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #126 on: August 08, 2008, 04:10:30 PM »

The very fact that to accept one religion you have to dismiss dozens of others which have exactly the same amount of proof is enough to make the whole thing seem very asinine.

Not all religions require you to dismiss other religions. This is exactly the issue that brought me to an impasse of discussion when dealing with born again Christians specifically. I would explain to the BAC that I, in fact, believe that their god exists, it's just that Yahweh isn't one that I hold faith in. Then the BAC would either say that my gods don't exist because there is only one god (theirs) in their view or mine are "demons".
Since said BAC was not interested in hearing any other viewpoints, and was more interested in trying to show me how I was bad for my views and that I was going to burn in a fiery pit somewhere. Impasse. Also, not worth my time trying to talk with said BAC about these things.

The only religion that could not contradict another religion, is one with exactly the same attributes. if you don't believe you have to dismiss other religions for your specific religious belief to be true, then you are dismissing the religion of the people who claim to believe that their is correct religion and no other religions are. If other people don't dismiss your belief then you are both agreeing on the same concept in that aspect. Whether you believe you are dismissing them or not, if your belief contradicts with their belief, then they both cannot be in reality. You think their supernatural entity/s can exist/is part of a whole with other gods, they think there is only one god in one form nothing else, both of you can't be right. Now of course anyone who believes that you don't have to dismiss other gods agrees with you, but if someone claims that your position is not true, then either you're right, they are, or neither of you are. If you were both correct then you would have to be agreeing on the same concept. You may believe that their god exists in some form or as part of some whole, the same afterlife, the same moral code, whatever, but as long as one attribute contradicts, you are not talking about the same entity, and cannot be both be right if one of your beliefs requires the other person to be wrong.


during this whole discussion I haven't seen anyone actually give a specific definition for whatever theist belief they had, or actually try and justify their beliefs. you may label me as narrow minded and intolerant, but I am perfectly willing to discuss the justifications for religious belief and I would never claim I know your justification to be faulty without hearing it. your repeated claim that I will be irrational based on my vocal denouncement of theist beliefs as unfounded has no backing because you haven't actually discussed it with me yet.

 It is possible for me to be intolerant of a viewpoint that I believe to be faulty and that encourages faulty thinking and still be rational in a discussion of the relative merits. In any dispute over reality, one party has to be acting irrationally or there would be no disagreement, and I fully accept the possibility of me being irrational, but until we talk about there is going to be absolutely no understanding gained on either side.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2008, 05:30:40 PM by fatcat »
Logged

Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

  • A Cut Above The Rest
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8299
  • If government is the answer, the question is stupi
    • View Profile
Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #127 on: August 08, 2008, 06:29:42 PM »

You're making far too many blanket statements to be correct.  Judaism recognizes that there are other religions out there and that just because other people are not Jewish doesn't mean they're evil or "sinners" or any stupid crap like that.  Although it seems that you in your atheist religion believe that about Jews.  Strange how the atheist is more dogmatic and religious about his beliefs than several of the religious people here.
Logged
"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

hellbilly

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6664
  • Pogue Mahone.
    • View Profile
Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #128 on: August 08, 2008, 06:51:33 PM »

Nit picking.

If fatcat goes into detail, he gets slammed for typing too much text, and no one will likely read it all anyway. So casting a "blanket statement" is fitting for this format, and it gets his point across just fine if the reader is willing to relax a bit and hear his message.

Josh didn't reply to the issue really in his homo related post. Additionally, many people say that homosexuality isn't a preference whatsoever but that it is determined at birth- and that cancels out a lot of what was said.

If people weren't indoctrinated to believe in this or that spirit, and if people weren't subjected to morals imposed by various religions in competition with one another for winning souls, then this whole concept would fade away. Superstition and myths would take form once again, which is a more entertaining and healthy pastime to engage in, and far less harmful.
Logged
Give me Liberty or give me Meth!

"We are profoundly dissatisfied with pretty much everything but we can’t articulate why, and are unable to offer any viable alternative." - Nathaniel Weiner

Porcupine_in_MA

  • Guest
Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #129 on: August 08, 2008, 06:57:42 PM »

If people weren't indoctrinated to believe in this or that spirit, and if people weren't subjected to morals imposed by various religions in competition with one another for winning souls, then this whole concept would fade away. Superstition and myths would take form once again, which is a more entertaining and healthy pastime to engage in, and far less harmful.

You're assumptions in this paragraph is that there is indoctrination in my beliefs and that all religions are like the monotheist ones that try and convince everyone to view things their way. Wrong.  I chose to believe what I believe.  Others who believe like I do don't want to "convert" anyone.
Logged

hellbilly

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6664
  • Pogue Mahone.
    • View Profile
Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #130 on: August 08, 2008, 07:03:31 PM »

I getcha. My point is that if it were simply dropped, in a few generations people would get over the myths.

You choose to believe what you believe- I have no idea what that would be. But if you had no knowledge of Jehova, Yahweh, Jesus, Allah, ..and so on and on and on..

Then you wouldn't be burdened or challenged on whether or not your choice of beliefs were correct. It might be as simple as looking at the world and thinking "Ah.. so this is the world I'm in. Cool."

Morality would be based on human nature, on a more personal and individual basis.
Logged
Give me Liberty or give me Meth!

"We are profoundly dissatisfied with pretty much everything but we can’t articulate why, and are unable to offer any viable alternative." - Nathaniel Weiner

blackie

  • Guest
Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #131 on: August 08, 2008, 07:06:44 PM »

Additionally, many people say that homosexuality isn't a preference whatsoever but that it is determined at birth- and that cancels out a lot of what was said.
A lot of people say that about religion too.

Since when does what "many people say" mean jack shit?
Logged

Porcupine_in_MA

  • Guest
Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #132 on: August 08, 2008, 07:09:02 PM »

Then you wouldn't be burdened or challenged on whether or not your choice of beliefs were correct. It might be as simple as looking at the world and thinking "Ah.. so this is the world I'm in. Cool."

Morality would be based on human nature, on a more personal and individual basis.

Again, you're assuming there is a burden or a challenge involved for me. There isn't. Also, you're assuming that if no one knew about any gods or other kinds of spirits, then because to you they don't exist we wouldn't know about them.
 While in my beliefs and understanding of the universe is that there are lots of beings out there that we don't see in our normal state of mind that would eventually make themselves known to humankind anyway.
Logged

Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

  • A Cut Above The Rest
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8299
  • If government is the answer, the question is stupi
    • View Profile
Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #133 on: August 08, 2008, 08:37:08 PM »

If people weren't indoctrinated to believe in this or that spirit, and if people weren't subjected to morals imposed by various religions in competition with one another for winning souls, then this whole concept would fade away. Superstition and myths would take form once again, which is a more entertaining and healthy pastime to engage in, and far less harmful.

You're assumptions in this paragraph is that there is indoctrination in my beliefs and that all religions are like the monotheist ones that try and convince everyone to view things their way. Wrong.  I chose to believe what I believe.  Others who believe like I do don't want to "convert" anyone.
I'm with you 100% on that.  Where religion lies, I'm not interested in converting anyone or having anyone try to convert me.
Logged
"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

hellbilly

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6664
  • Pogue Mahone.
    • View Profile
Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #134 on: August 08, 2008, 08:55:10 PM »

Since when does what "many people say" mean jack shit?

 :?

I should mention then that I am not referring to Porcupine's religious interests, or any others that do not attempt to convert members or disprove other forms of belief. But that pretty much cancels out the far majority of religious folk.

Honestly- there's no way I would attempt to catalogue every religion I could think of and explain my reasoning based toward each one! Now quit nit picking me coss you know what I mean.

JB- doesn't the jewish faith demand that non-jews convert to jew if they're going to marry someone who is already a jew? And it seems jewish people promote the homogenization of ethnicities and faiths outside juadaism, but simultaneously harp on the importance of preserving their own faith?
Logged
Give me Liberty or give me Meth!

"We are profoundly dissatisfied with pretty much everything but we can’t articulate why, and are unable to offer any viable alternative." - Nathaniel Weiner
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 21   Go Up
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  The Polling Pit
| | |-+  What is your Religion

// ]]>

Page created in 0.024 seconds with 37 queries.