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Poll

What is your Religion

Atheism
- 19 (24.4%)
Christianity
- 7 (9%)
Jewish
- 1 (1.3%)
Catholic
- 1 (1.3%)
Hinduism
- 0 (0%)
Buddhism
- 1 (1.3%)
Rastafarianism
- 1 (1.3%)
Islam
- 3 (3.8%)
Taoism
- 1 (1.3%)
Neopaganism / Pagan
- 4 (5.1%)
Satanism
- 1 (1.3%)
Scientology
- 0 (0%)
Wiccan
- 0 (0%)
Pastafarian
- 0 (0%)
Animistic
- 0 (0%)
All Religions :D
- 1 (1.3%)
No Religion / Not Religious
- 19 (24.4%)
None of these
- 11 (14.1%)
Pantheism
- 2 (2.6%)
Judaism
- 2 (2.6%)
Asatru / Norse Gods
- 2 (2.6%)
Discordian/Subgenius
- 1 (1.3%)
Pantheist
- 1 (1.3%)
Government
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 44

Voting closes: December 20, 2035, 01:27:29 PM


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DogOn

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #105 on: August 07, 2008, 07:10:36 PM »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the belief that there is no god is a belief...if you want to get that specific.  I think no belief would be...agnosticism...not necessarily believing anything in particular.

Did you read what I wrote?

Atheism and theism refer to forms of belief. Theism is the belief in a religion, atheism is a lack of that belief. not belief in the opposite claim.

not believing in god =! believing there is no god

a/gnostic refers to forms of knowledge. If you say "i dont know" to the question, "is there a god?", you still lack the belief in god.

knowledge is a subset of belief. you can believe in something and not claim to know it 100%

agnostic means i don't know / it can't be known depending on your definition.

Most theists are gnostic theists, i.e. they believe in god and claim they know it for a fact.


my cat is atheist
You know what your cat thinks?

Its not possible for my cat to have a belief in god. No belief in god = atheist.


Fatcat, whomever makes a positive statement ( I believe xyz.....) has a burden of proof on them.

Religious people make a positive statement, and justify it.
Athiests also make a positive statement. They also justify it, meaning they believe something.
Its really the agnostics that can claim they dont believe in anything dogmatically

Atheism is a responsive position to claims of god. Atheism is not a positive statement.

Now if you want to use a different definition, then fine, but under standard etymology the A suffix usually means lack of, amoral for example is not the same as immoral

Now I don't know any atheist who claim to know for an absolute certainty that no god exists, much like I can't claim to know to an absolute certainty there isn't a unicorn in existence on some Micronesian island somewhere, but in day to day uses of knowledge, much like I claim that I know there is no such thing as unicorns and leprechauns, I claim to know there are no gods, as I have not seen sufficient evidence to believe such a claim, but like you said, it would require some sort of proof or evidence to claim to 100% certainty that there are no gods, namely an absolute knowledge of the universe/existence, which I don't have and likely never will.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2008, 07:37:22 PM by fatcat »
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blackie

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #106 on: August 07, 2008, 07:15:03 PM »

my cat is atheist
You know what your cat thinks?

Its not possible for my cat to have a belief in god. No belief in god = atheist.
Answer the question I asked.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2008, 07:16:45 PM by Blackie »
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DogOn

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #107 on: August 07, 2008, 07:17:56 PM »

my cat is atheist
You know what your cat thinks?

Its not possible for my cat to have a belief in god. No belief in god = atheist.
Answer the question I asked.

I thought it was implicit in my statement. With current technology it is impossible for me to know what my cat thinks, but I don't need to in order to establish whether it has certain beliefs. I know it doesn't have a complex enough brain to conjure any sort of concept like a god, so therefore by its lack of ability to believe in such a claim, it still lacks the belief, ergo my cat = atheist. I do not believe it is possible for my cat to believe there is a god, or believe there is no god, as everything I know about biology and evolution tells me that its extremely unlikely cats are able to think of any abstract concepts. Not being able to think in words drastically reduces your capacity to think of anything beyond basic sensation and impulse.

I understand the atheist/agnostic semantics debate is a tedious one, but its an important distinction to make, especially since a lot of people view agnosticism to be the superior intellectual position, and those foolish atheists are just as dumb as the theists.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2008, 07:36:53 PM by fatcat »
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trollfreezone

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #108 on: August 07, 2008, 07:40:07 PM »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the belief that there is no god is a belief...if you want to get that specific.  I think no belief would be...agnosticism...not necessarily believing anything in particular.

Did you read what I wrote?

Sure did.  Noticed you repeated yourself too.
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DogOn

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #109 on: August 07, 2008, 07:46:38 PM »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the belief that there is no god is a belief...if you want to get that specific.  I think no belief would be...agnosticism...not necessarily believing anything in particular.

Did you read what I wrote?

Sure did.  Noticed you repeated yourself too.

I thought I made it clear that Atheism is a lack of belief, and a/gnosticsm refers to claims on knowledge, no?

I am aware I look like a gigantic asshole with my repetitive semantics, but I'm just trying to clear up the confusion in terminology people have when it comes to beliefs.
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freeAgent

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #110 on: August 07, 2008, 09:13:53 PM »

I don't believe in any god or gods, but I really don't care either way.  Prove why I should care and I'll do so.  So: No Religion/Not Religious for me :)
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hellbilly

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #111 on: August 07, 2008, 10:58:54 PM »

I don't believe in any god or gods, but I really don't care either way.  Prove why I should care and I'll do so.  So: No Religion/Not Religious for me :)

I think you should care.. religion has served to stifle scientific and philosophical progress and to control masses of individuals. It encourages judging other people, enforcing certain moral standards - all according to some moral code handed down by something up in the sky.

No matter how it's tweaked it simply cannot make sense.
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Taors

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #112 on: August 07, 2008, 11:00:31 PM »

Blanket statements are so much fun!
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hellbilly

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #113 on: August 07, 2008, 11:06:58 PM »

Blanket statements are so much fun!

Woe unto me for I hath neglected to reveal the Blessings of Faith.

Saved souls, good deeds, community good.. whoopdeedoo. Good people exist with no involvement in church or spirituality whatsoever.

Would you like to make sense of it all for us?
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Give me Liberty or give me Meth!

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Taors

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #114 on: August 08, 2008, 12:01:18 AM »

Blanket statements are so much fun!

Woe unto me for I hath neglected to reveal the Blessings of Faith.

Saved souls, good deeds, community good.. whoopdeedoo. Good people exist with no involvement in church or spirituality whatsoever.

Would you like to make sense of it all for us?

Sure. The bold is a non-sequitor. You're basically claiming that the sole aim and/or goal of religion is to turn people good. Which, quite a few of them do purport - but not all.

How many times do we have to go over this, Oh Wise One?
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hellbilly

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #115 on: August 08, 2008, 12:42:55 AM »

How many times do we have to go over this, Oh Wise One?

What exactly are we going over?
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Give me Liberty or give me Meth!

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Taors

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #116 on: August 08, 2008, 01:15:33 AM »

How many times do we have to go over this, Oh Wise One?

What exactly are we going over?

You continually claim that all religions have the same goal, or purpose. I'm telling you that you're wrong. We've had this discussion before.
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #117 on: August 08, 2008, 05:24:00 AM »

I don't believe in any god or gods, but I really don't care either way.  Prove why I should care and I'll do so.  So: No Religion/Not Religious for me :)

I think you should care.. religion has served to stifle scientific and philosophical progress and to control masses of individuals. It encourages judging other people, enforcing certain moral standards - all according to some moral code handed down by something up in the sky.

No matter how it's tweaked it simply cannot make sense.
Not always...Judaism is and to my knowledge has always been pro-science.  I can't think of any part of history where Judaism stifled scientific progress.  That certainly is the case with Islam today (at least in much of the Middle East) and definitely was in Middle Age Christianity however.  I don't think its fair to say that religion in itself halts scientific progress.
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Taors

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #118 on: August 08, 2008, 06:13:41 AM »

I don't believe in any god or gods, but I really don't care either way.  Prove why I should care and I'll do so.  So: No Religion/Not Religious for me :)

I think you should care.. religion has served to stifle scientific and philosophical progress and to control masses of individuals. It encourages judging other people, enforcing certain moral standards - all according to some moral code handed down by something up in the sky.

No matter how it's tweaked it simply cannot make sense.
Not always...Judaism is and to my knowledge has always been pro-science.  I can't think of any part of history where Judaism stifled scientific progress.  That certainly is the case with Islam today (at least in much of the Middle East) and definitely was in Middle Age Christianity however.  I don't think its fair to say that religion in itself halts scientific progress.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age
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DogOn

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #119 on: August 08, 2008, 08:39:36 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Muslim_conquest_in_642

Quote
In 642 after the Byzantine army was defeated at the Battle of Heliopolis, and that the commander asked the caliph Umar what to do with the library. He gave the famous answer: "They will either contradict the Koran, in which case they are heresy, or they will agree with it, so they are superfluous." The Arabs subsequently burned the books to heat bathwater for the soldiers. It was also said that the Library's collection was still substantial enough at this late date to provide six months' worth of fuel for the baths.

The point is, religious people can do good things, but religion can't make anyone do anything they couldn't do without religion, and since so many religions make a point of arbitrary rulings, and discourage scientific inquest, then at best its useless and at worst its harmful.

Even now in the 21st century, religion is used to discourage rationality.

Faith based initiatives, abstinence programs, preachers in Africa telling their followers that AIDS is a homosexual disease, and that condoms make you infertile, genetic engineering, stem cell research, cloning have all been opposed by certain religious sects, kansas school boards encouraging people to consider 'intelligent design' over evolution.

Not to mention that the Islamic, Christian and Jewish holy books all sanction slavery, rape, murdering people for thought crimes and many more horrible actions.

Name one benefit religion brings that cannot be achieved by secular means.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2008, 09:21:18 AM by fatcat »
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