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Poll

What is your Religion

Atheism
- 19 (24.4%)
Christianity
- 7 (9%)
Jewish
- 1 (1.3%)
Catholic
- 1 (1.3%)
Hinduism
- 0 (0%)
Buddhism
- 1 (1.3%)
Rastafarianism
- 1 (1.3%)
Islam
- 3 (3.8%)
Taoism
- 1 (1.3%)
Neopaganism / Pagan
- 4 (5.1%)
Satanism
- 1 (1.3%)
Scientology
- 0 (0%)
Wiccan
- 0 (0%)
Pastafarian
- 0 (0%)
Animistic
- 0 (0%)
All Religions :D
- 1 (1.3%)
No Religion / Not Religious
- 19 (24.4%)
None of these
- 11 (14.1%)
Pantheism
- 2 (2.6%)
Judaism
- 2 (2.6%)
Asatru / Norse Gods
- 2 (2.6%)
Discordian/Subgenius
- 1 (1.3%)
Pantheist
- 1 (1.3%)
Government
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 44

Voting closes: December 20, 2035, 01:27:29 PM


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Porcupine_in_MA

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #90 on: August 07, 2008, 01:53:04 PM »

My attitude is not an "atheist" attitude. Atheist means you don't believe in any claims of any gods, thats it. Its a responsive position to a claim. Now my personal preference to belittle theists has nothing to do with my non belief in god claims. Non belief cannot be the basis for any action.

It is an attitude that I have witnessed many a time by many atheists I have met online and in person, whatever you may like to call it.

If you think you have justification for zeus, allah, jehovah, whoever, then I'll gladly discuss the matter with you

Why on earth would you think that I would need to justify any of my beliefs to you?


but the fact 100% of religious people I have talked with have used extremely substandard thinking allows me to mock them with a clear conscience. I am aware this is not a persuasive method, but I find the averages theist disregard for logic, and their unwillingness to defend their beliefs very distasteful. I freely admit that I am intolerant to theists, I care deeply about rational thought and any positions thats seem to vehemently appose free thought on any issue are in my contempt.
Any theists want to debate me, throw me a PM and I'll gladly give you an IM address you can talk to me on.

I care about reason and free thought also, but with your attitude of intolerance why would I be interested in chatting with you about this? Like you said it is not a persuasive method but not only is it that but it also comes off as rude and intolerant, which it is. So it cuts off any interest in someone who holds a different understanding than you from wanting to communicate.
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Porcupine_in_MA

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #91 on: August 07, 2008, 01:59:54 PM »

And by the way, what is most amusing is that how you tout your self as oh-so-intellectual and so much more of a reasoner than theists and yet your attitude is virtually identical to several rabid born again Christians that I have met. Different side of the same narrow view coin.
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DogOn

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #92 on: August 07, 2008, 02:01:02 PM »

My attitude is not an "atheist" attitude. Atheist means you don't believe in any claims of any gods, thats it. Its a responsive position to a claim. Now my personal preference to belittle theists has nothing to do with my non belief in god claims. Non belief cannot be the basis for any action.

It is an attitude that I have witnessed many a time by many atheists I have met online and in person, whatever you may like to call it.

If you think you have justification for zeus, allah, jehovah, whoever, then I'll gladly discuss the matter with you

Why on earth would you think that I would need to justify any of my beliefs to you?

You don't. But one of the best ways we test our beliefs is by having people who disagree with us talk about it.

Quote
I care about reason and free thought also, but with your attitude of intolerance why would I be interested in chatting with you about this? Like you said it is not a persuasive method but not only is it that but it also comes off as rude and intolerant, which it is. So it cuts off any interest in someone who holds a different understanding than you from wanting to communicate.

I already said I am intolerant. I believe intolerance is only a negative attribute if it is intolerance against positive or neutral attributes. Murder, dishonesty, these things most normal people are intolerant against. I believe all theists claims I have ever encountered to be illogical, and encourage people to believe on emotion, and actively shutter reasoned inquest. I am aware that to someone who believes in theist claims, and does not believe themselves to be irrational (who does), then this is an inflammatory remark, but you are already assuming that you are correct in order for what I say to be egregious. You have not made the test to actually see if I am right, you merely have my claim, not my justification, and I am not in the business of lying about my opinions to influence people I otherwise respect.

It is a comfortable position to not want to discuss things with someone who opposes you, my conscience will not allow me to be dishonest and claim that I do not believe your beliefs to be silly. Now its perfectly fine if you don't want to talk to me, but if you assume I have good reason then you may gain some insight into your own belief if you take the time to discuss it with me, no matter how idiotic and aggressive I may appear.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2008, 02:06:03 PM by fatcat »
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DogOn

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #93 on: August 07, 2008, 02:08:10 PM »

And by the way, what is most amusing is that how you tout your self as oh-so-intellectual and so much more of a reasoner than theists and yet your attitude is virtually identical to several rabid born again Christians that I have met. Different side of the same narrow view coin.

I disagree. I believe all theists I have encountered have made faulty arguments, I believe mine to be correct, and you have no justification to believe that I am wrong or being just as irrational as 'rabid born again Christians' until you have heard my reasons.

Thats agnostic.  "Whether they believe in god or not" drops it on its head, and kinda invalidates the rest of your statement.  Remove it, and you got agnosticism. 

Not sure exactly what you're saying here, but I'll reiterate my position since there seems to be alot of confusion over the terminology.

A/gnosticism refers only to what you claim to know. An agnostic is someone who believes a claim to be unknowable/unprovable. You can be an agnostic theist (a theist who believes in god, but claims it would be impossible to know for sure), or an agnostic atheist (an atheist who does not believe in a god, but claims it is impossible to know). A gnostic claims to have the knowledge. I don't know any atheists who claim to be 100% gnostic atheists, though many claim that under reasonable circumstances it is fair to say that they know there isn't one, much like, i can say fairly well, that I know there are no such thing as leprechauns, but as I do not have complete knowledge of the universe, I cannot say for sure there is not one on some distant planet.

When people say they are agnostic, they are still atheist. Atheist only meaning that you do not accept the claim to be true, "I don't know", is still a lack of belief. A lot of the confusion arises as many atheists claim to believe that there is no god. Not the same thing as not believing there is a god.

that clear it up?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2008, 02:14:20 PM by fatcat »
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Porcupine_in_MA

  • Guest
Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #94 on: August 07, 2008, 02:13:59 PM »

Fatcat, discussion is kind of moot when all the other person is doing is trying to tell the other how wrong they are and prove it. Especially in dealing with things like belief or non-belief in metaphysics, spirituality and the existence of, or not, of gods.
 Over my life I've had this chat with born-again Christians and other hard-core Christians and atheists. The other person already has it all figured out (in their mind) and is trying to make me think the way they do or prove that I am wrong in some way. Thanks but no thanks. I'm done trying to have down-to-earth conversations with someone who is narrow-minded and isn't interested in really listening but wants to be "right".
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DogOn

  • Guest
Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #95 on: August 07, 2008, 02:18:22 PM »

Fatcat, discussion is kind of moot when all the other person is doing is trying to tell the other how wrong they are and prove it. Especially in dealing with things like belief or non-belief in metaphysics, spirituality and the existence of, or not, of gods.
 Over my life I've had this chat with born-again Christians and other hard-core Christians and atheists. The other person already has it all figured out (in their mind) and is trying to make me think the way they do or prove that I am wrong in some way. Thanks but no thanks. I'm done trying to have down-to-earth conversations with someone who is narrow-minded and isn't interested in really listening but wants to be "right".

what?

I care about having correct beliefs. I believe my beliefs are correct, but I will not claim I know that your justification is incorrect when I don't know what that is.

You haven't even given me a chance, but you claim that I am not interested in listening and that I would not talk to you in a fair and reasonable manner.

I don't claim that I know you're wrong. I don't know why you believe in whatever god claim you do, if you tell me your justification then I can speak to what that is. My propensity to be brutally honest about my opinion of other beliefs does not disable me from being rational or fair. You can claim that I will be narrow minded and uninterested during our discussion, but as you have never tried then it is just as irrational as if I were to claim your reasoning is incorrect without hearing it.

If you agree to debate with me one on one, I will give you my reasons why I think there is not rational justification to believe in any theist claim I have encountered, if you give me your justifications for your belief, then I will try my best to give you my honest opinion on that justification. I will not claim to be right merely by my current belief, and i will not claim that you are wrong merely on your belief. I deal on reasons and justification, however, I don't think theres much I can say that will make you believe I will treat you fairly so I understand I am probably wasting my time with this typing.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2008, 02:22:15 PM by fatcat »
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The Muslim Agorist

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #96 on: August 07, 2008, 02:33:15 PM »

Go and Google “define: religion”
Quote from: wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny
Quote from: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RELIGION
A religion is a set of beliefs and practices often organized around supernatural and moral claims, and often codified as prayer, ritual, and religious law
Quote from: en.wiktionary.org/wiki/religion
A system of beliefs, including belief in the existence of at least one of the following: a human soul or spirit, a deity or higher being, or self after the death of one’s body
Quote from: oregonstate.edu/instruct/anth370/gloss.html
a set of attitudes, beliefs, and practices pertaining to supernatural power

Fatcat is unquestionably correct in his claim that atheism is NOT a religion.

However, belief in God's nonexistence is faith, while nonbelief in God's existence is merely agnosticism.
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Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #97 on: August 07, 2008, 02:49:41 PM »

If you can think of it from a dogmatic perspective, it IS religion to you.  be it secular humanism, or athiesm.
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DogOn

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #98 on: August 07, 2008, 03:27:15 PM »

If you can think of it from a dogmatic perspective, it IS religion to you.  be it secular humanism, or athiesm.

can people stop misusing the word atheism?

you can't think of atheism from any perspective because it is a LACK of belief.

picture a belief in a god, then remove that belief, THAT'S ATHEISM.

you're an atheist even if you've never heard of the idea of gods so long as you lack the belief in them.

being an atheist does not mean you think ANYTHING. all it means is you DON'T believe in a god. rocks are atheist, my cat is atheist, etc etc

being against theism is NOT an atheist position, it is an anti-theist position

likewise believing there is no god is NOT an atheist position, even though a large chunk of atheists believe it.

just like amoral means neither moral or immoral, atheist means neither theist or anti theist.

that little A at the start of atheism means something. theres theism, and theres A-theism, it means lack of theism

how many times do I have to say this?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2008, 06:04:32 PM by fatcat »
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Porcupine_in_MA

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #99 on: August 07, 2008, 03:47:55 PM »

Fatcat is correct atheist is not a religion.
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trollfreezone

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #100 on: August 07, 2008, 06:30:45 PM »

If you can think of it from a dogmatic perspective, it IS religion to you.  be it secular humanism, or athiesm.

can people stop misusing the word atheism?

you can't think of atheism from any perspective because it is a LACK of belief.

picture a belief in a god, then remove that belief, THAT'S ATHEISM.

you're an atheist even if you've never heard of the idea of gods so long as you lack the belief in them.

being an atheist does not mean you think ANYTHING. all it means is you DON'T believe in a god. rocks are atheist, my cat is atheist, etc etc

being against theism is NOT an atheist position, it is an anti-theist position

likewise believing there is no god is NOT an atheist position, even though a large chunk of atheists believe it.

just like amoral means neither moral or immoral, atheist means neither theist or anti theist.

that little A at the start of atheism means something. theres theism, and theres A-theism, it means lack of theism

how many times do I have to say this?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the belief that there is no god is a belief...if you want to get that specific.  I think no belief would be...agnosticism...not necessarily believing anything in particular.
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Taors

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #101 on: August 07, 2008, 06:36:45 PM »

Fatcat, discussion is kind of moot when all the other person is doing is trying to tell the other how wrong they are and prove it. Especially in dealing with things like belief or non-belief in metaphysics, spirituality and the existence of, or not, of gods.
 Over my life I've had this chat with born-again Christians and other hard-core Christians and atheists. The other person already has it all figured out (in their mind) and is trying to make me think the way they do or prove that I am wrong in some way. Thanks but no thanks. I'm done trying to have down-to-earth conversations with someone who is narrow-minded and isn't interested in really listening but wants to be "right".

Now you know why I don't debate him...

about ANYTHING.
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blackie

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #102 on: August 07, 2008, 06:39:59 PM »

my cat is atheist
You know what your cat thinks?
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AntonLee

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #103 on: August 07, 2008, 06:41:41 PM »

Jim Croce was god. . . and now he's dead so we're all fucked.
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Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: What is your Religion
« Reply #104 on: August 07, 2008, 06:51:53 PM »

Fatcat, whomever makes a positive statement ( I believe xyz.....) has a burden of proof on them.

Religious people make a positive statement, and justify it.
Athiests also make a positive statement. They also justify it, meaning they believe something.
Its really the agnostics that can claim they dont believe in anything dogmatically
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I am looking for an honest man. -Diogenes The Cynic

Dude, I thought you were a spambot for like a week. You posted like a spambot. You failed the Turing test.

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