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Poll

Are you at least partly responsible for the actions of the politicians you vote for if they take office?

Yes
No

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Author Topic: Voting  (Read 8379 times)

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theodorelogan

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Voting
« on: April 12, 2007, 10:50:07 AM »

Simple question.
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theghostofbj

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Re: Voting
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2007, 10:51:02 AM »

Yes.
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freeAgent

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Re: Voting
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2007, 10:51:57 AM »

Yep.  I would say that you are.
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goten1201

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Re: Voting
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2007, 11:10:39 AM »

iffy,  because politics is all about back stabbing,  say your gonna lower taxes,  you get elected and you raise taxes, theres no contract they have to abide by, no promises they can't break.  everyone can get fooled and tricked.  Nixon got elected because he said he was going to take the troops out of vietnam and he lied among other things.
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theodorelogan

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Re: Voting
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2007, 11:12:03 AM »

Yes, but don't you know backstabbing will occur before you vote?  Don't you understand that there is a high likelyhood (more like a certainty)_ that the person you are voting for is a liar?
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Lindsey

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Re: Voting
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2007, 12:40:23 PM »

I voted no, because I do agree that you voted to elect this individual.  But I can't control what you, BJ, my mother, George Bush, or anyone else does.  Say Johnny gets in a car accident, and kills a family of five.  Are you responsible for his accident because you are the bartender that served him that night? 
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voodoo

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Re: Voting
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2007, 12:50:07 PM »

What she said.  I've always voted for the guy that lost, anyway.
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theodorelogan

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Re: Voting
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2007, 01:04:08 PM »

Quote
Are you responsible for his accident because you are the bartender that served him that night?

No, because I did not give him explicit permission to act in my name.

Maybe you think I meant that the politician holds no responsibility.  I don't mean that of course.  I simply mean that voters share that responsibility.

Let me ask you this Lindsay.  Do you think that George Bush bears any responsibility for the war in Iraq....or is it only the fault of the soldiers on the ground?
« Last Edit: April 12, 2007, 01:07:47 PM by Pres. of Vincentia »
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Lindsey

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Re: Voting
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2007, 01:07:41 PM »

Congress can read the laws they pass.  It's right there in black and white.  So yes, it's their responsibility to read them and know what they're voting for.  The legislation can't change its mind or lie without their approval. 
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theodorelogan

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Re: Voting
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2007, 01:08:20 PM »

Sorry lindsey, cross edit.
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voodoo

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Re: Voting
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2007, 01:08:53 PM »

So if candidates aren't responsible for the actions of politicians we vote for....then is Congress responsible for the legislation that IT votes for?

No.  It can't be any more responsible than an executive that signs it, judiciary that upholds it, states that enact it, or populace that abides it.  To say otherwise would necessitate that a legislator would also be responsible for legislation that she didn't vote for, and legislation that didn't even come before her.
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Lindsey

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Re: Voting
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2007, 01:13:50 PM »

Go back and spell my name correctly in your cross edit. 

If you vote someone in to office, you did not give them explicit permission to act in your name either.  You gave them permission to uphold the ideals and values they claimed they would.  You can't control whether or not those ideals and values change. 

How could I think the politician holds no responsibility?  They hold the majority of the responsibility.  The individual himself is the only one in charge of his actions, barring being held at gunpoint - literally or figuratively.  The only thing we as voters are responsible for is voting them in to office.  Beyond that, we are not responsible for their actions because we may not know what actions they're going to subversively take.

Yes, he absolutely does.  He is the commander in chief of the armed forces.  He's in charge of the entire operation, unfortunately.  He's also trigger-happy. 
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theodorelogan

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Re: Voting
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2007, 01:51:36 PM »

Quote
Yes, he absolutely does.  He is the commander in chief of the armed forces.  He's in charge of the entire operation, unfortunately.  He's also trigger-happy.

So, even though George Bush never actually ordered any person to be killed (that we know of of course), he shares responsibility?  Is it because he knows that his orders will LEAD to deaths?

How is that HE is responsible for those deaths, but the voter that puts a politician into power is not responsible, for example, the theft that pays the politicians paycheck, when the voter knows very well will lead to just this happening?

Quote
If you vote someone in to office, you did not give them explicit permission to act in your name either.  You gave them permission to uphold the ideals and values they claimed they would.  You can't control whether or not those ideals and values change.


This is nothing more than willful ignorance.  We both know very well that power corrupts, and that people that get power use it to their advantage.  To use the excuse "Well, how was I supposed to know he wouldn't uphold his campaign promises!" is about the thinnest cover there is.  Bush might as well be shocked to learn that his orders to invade Iraq led to the deaths of Iraqis.
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Lindsey

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Re: Voting
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2007, 01:59:27 PM »

You're just making it way too easy for someone not to take responsibility for their own actions...and somehow making it so everyone is responsible for something that one person does. 
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gibson042

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Re: Voting
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2007, 02:04:56 PM »

I can't vote for the question as worded.  "Are you responsible" too strongly covers sole responsibility; "are you partly responsible" or the like would more clearly articulate the concept of shared responsibility.

Edit: replaced "individual" with "sole".
« Last Edit: April 12, 2007, 03:02:26 PM by gibson042 »
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