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Author Topic: Tricky Question  (Read 13305 times)

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aquabanianskakid

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2006, 11:05:14 PM »

Agreed.
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Lindsey

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2006, 11:06:31 PM »

I was already rolling along this path, but for some reason I have this hangup about killing people.  I seem to be having the conflicting thoughts problem as well. 
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Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.
         -George W. Bush

zebraflood

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2006, 11:39:51 PM »

Someone paid with tax money is essentially stealing their living from my neighbors and me.  They plan to keep doing it for as long as they can get away with it.  If I were to take that person's life, it would be in the defense of my property and the property of my neighbors.  If a thug comes up to me and demands my wallet, I am within my rights to shoot him dead to defend my property.  (I assume most people on this thread understand the correlation between defense of property and defense of life.)  Maybe I'm just vengeful, but it seems to me that the life of anyone who makes their living through coercion is forfeit.


Yes... but for physical force (murder or otherwise) to be justified doesn't one have to be in immediate danger of unwelcome intrusion upon one's person or extension thereof (property, etc.) by, presumably, a particular tangible being(s) of some sort? The only real entities are individuals, not some collective (government, in this case).

I'm not sure I'm willing to say that being paid by a villain makes you a villain. In fact, I'm completely unwilling to agree with that statement. You're completely ignoring that people are always going to act upon what they believe to be in their best interest. I'm not going to shoot the mailman because he thought he finally nailed a great job because it comes with a sweet benefits package. That's absurd.
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Ecolitan

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2006, 12:15:34 AM »

The mailman might be different.  I still probably wouldn't turn my friend in but I wouldn't slap him on the back for killing the mailman.  That's why I limited to those actively involved in tyranny, IRS agents, cops of all flavors, OSHA inspectors, Bureau of Indian Affairs etc.

Of course you went a little beyond the scope of the question with the "I'm not gonna shoot the mailman" bit.  I'm not gonna shoot the ATF agent but I'd be glad to see him gone.
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Brent

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2006, 12:39:37 AM »

Let's pose a hypothetical situation.  Your next door neighbor is robbing you every day.  His method is to walk into your house with a large group of armed thugs who hold you at gunpoint while he takes what he wants from your home.  You know for a fact he will keep doing this every day until you make him stop because he tells you he will.  You can't call the police because they ARE the group of armed thugs.  What are you to do?  You can't put him in jail.  You can't kill him when he is directly threatening you because he has more guns.  It seems to me that the most logical course of action is to kill him when he isn't expecting it, not when he's directly attacking you.  The fact that his declared intentions are to steal from you every day is key, because it makes anything you do to him an action of self defense.  It's somewhat similar to a robber who says, "Give me your watch or I'll cap your ass."  He hasn't yet attacked you in any manner other than verbally, but it's your right to shoot him in the face to keep him from taking your possessions or capping your ass in the future. 

I'm not going to shoot the mailman because he thought he finally nailed a great job because it comes with a sweet benefits package. That's absurd.

Neither do I plan to shoot the mailman.  He likely doesn't realize that he is paid through violence and theft.  That doesn't change the fact thay by my moral code, his life is forfeit.  I would rather have him work off his debt to me, but the situation in which we all live makes this impossible.  If I were to take his life, I would be defending my belongings from him.  (I'm working off of the idea that the mailman makes his money through taxation in this scenario, which I'm not sure is entirely true.)  I am not an advocate of killing every person you feel you have a right to kill.  For instance, I've been attacked by a drunk redneck while I was armed.  (Hooray for the shithole town of Kirksville, MO)  I didn't even pull out my weapon.  He was trashed and barely able to stand up, so I kicked his ass instead.  It was easier on my psyche than shooting him would have been even though he attacked me from behind.  In my mind, his life was forfeit to me, but I chose not to take it because I am merciful.  However, if my friend kills someone who they have a right to defend themselves from, it would be wrong of me to turn that friend in. 
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ladyattis

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2006, 01:36:37 AM »

I voted yes if it was murder. If it was self-defense, then I would vote no. Remember, it's the context that counts, not just the act itself.

-- Bridget
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Lindsey

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2006, 01:58:21 AM »

I voted yes if it was murder. If it was self-defense, then I would vote no. Remember, it's the context that counts, not just the act itself.

-- Bridget

Goddamnit.  That's pretty much what I was trying to say early on.  I apparently have not mastered the concept of brevity as well as previously thought.  It's not that I'm thinking more along the lines of murder versus self defense, but I'm having a problem with the example given in the first post, with dropping dead with no apparent cause versus being murdered.  Sorry, I suck. 
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Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.
         -George W. Bush

Smitty507

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2006, 08:49:25 PM »

A politician is a theif and a murderer, simple as that.  Why should he be given impunity?
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Lindsey

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2006, 10:44:37 PM »

A politician is a theif and a murderer, simple as that.  Why should he be given impunity?

So how about those Libertarian candidates, eh?   :shock:
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Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.
         -George W. Bush

mrapplecastle

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2006, 02:02:58 AM »

A politician is a theif and a murderer, simple as that. Why should he be given impunity?

So how about those Libertarian candidates, eh? :shock:
guilty as charged
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FKnight

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2006, 02:04:08 AM »

Fuck yes I'd turn them in.
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Taors

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2006, 09:16:56 AM »

Fuck yes I'd turn them in.


Snitch. No one likes a snitch, snitch.

Snitch.
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aquabanianskakid

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2006, 09:58:54 AM »

Fknight... don't ever come near my house.. especially my basement.
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Taors

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2006, 10:14:51 AM »

I can see why. No one wants a damn snitch near em. Snitch should go live on an island all by himself because he's a snitch. Snitch.

...Snitch.
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AncapAgency

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2006, 11:07:58 AM »

Anyone who initiates aggression has waived their right to be free from aggression.
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