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Author Topic: Tricky Question  (Read 12995 times)

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Johnny_

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Tricky Question
« on: December 07, 2006, 03:51:37 PM »

I don't blame anyone who chooses not to answer, but I just thought of a question that some of you might have trouble answering.

So, if someone you knew (maybe not a best friend, just someone who you trusted not to be lying) told you that he or she killed a politician / government bureaucrat  (not in self defense), would you turn them in?

On one hand, they just murdered someone, which is a direct violation of liberty.

On the other hand, they murdered a member of an oppressive organization who's only goal is control over you.

I know there's at least one libertarian out there who's stated that the best thing that could happen would be for every member of government to drop dead (he does this one libertarian radio talk show...), so what would you do?

Edit: I should have been less general with my question, so here's a clarification (you can change your vote, I think).  Assume the bureaucrat is NOT some low-level county clerk or one of the hundreds of thousands of power-less jobs staffed by people who just want a paycheck, but is instead someone who actually has a decent amount of control.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2006, 01:08:44 PM by Johnny_ »
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Lindsey

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2006, 03:55:10 PM »

"Drop dead" and "be murdered" are two totally different things.  Also, I think the answer would depend on the friend and the politician.  I'm still thinking about my answer, so I haven't voted yet.  I personally cannot say for sure what I would do unless I was suddenly put in this situation. 
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Johnny_

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2006, 04:11:46 PM »

"Drop dead" and "be murdered" are two totally different things.  Also, I think the answer would depend on the friend and the politician.  I'm still thinking about my answer, so I haven't voted yet.  I personally cannot say for sure what I would do unless I was suddenly put in this situation. 

Even I don't know what I would vote.  That's the reason I didn't put a 'maybe' option, because it's the easy way out. 

In my mind, saying "the best thing that could happen is for you to die" is no different than saying "the best thing that could happen to you is for you to be murdered".  Not that I particularly care about the politicians health, their actions have killed thousands.
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Lindsey

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2006, 04:13:52 PM »

Sure it is.  If somebody drops dead, that denotes that harm has not been purposefully inflicted per se.  Being murdered suggests that whoever stated that would like to see someone killed for what superficially appears to be no reason at all, casting aside whatever said politician has done wrong to the people. 
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Taors

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2006, 04:16:07 PM »

I chose no.
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Johnny_

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2006, 04:26:05 PM »

Sure it is.  If somebody drops dead, that denotes that harm has not been purposefully inflicted per se.  Being murdered suggests that whoever stated that would like to see someone killed for what superficially appears to be no reason at all, casting aside whatever said politician has done wrong to the people. 

I still fail to see the difference.  Saying that the best thing for someone is to die from _____ is any better than some other method ______ is still ignoring the fact that this hypothetical person we're talking about thinks the best thing that could happen is for some person or persons to die.  I fail, completely, to see how the method changes the meaning.  Someone thinks the best thing is for someone else to be dead.  That's it.
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Lindsey

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2006, 04:28:19 PM »

Personally speaking, if I sat here and said "I hope Johnny dies", that infers that I don't care how you die.  If I said "I hope Johnny gets murdered", it infers that I would like your liberty to be violated and for you to be harmed unjustly.  To me, the method changes the meaning in this context. 
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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2006, 04:34:54 PM »

I answered on the assumption that it's a politician or bureaucrat that is involved in some sort of freedom killing behavior because it's 99% probable.  In which case they choose to be at war with me and it's OK to kill them anytime for any reason.

Edit: Upon further consideration I realize that to be consistent I'd have to extend that to the people that voted for those politicians knowing what their actions would be.  I still stand by that for now. 
« Last Edit: December 07, 2006, 04:39:13 PM by Roycerson »
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Lindsey

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2006, 04:36:52 PM »

I answered on the assumption that it's a politician or bureaucrat that is involved in some sort of freedom killing behavior because it's 99% probably.  In which case they choose to be at war with me and it's OK to kill them anytime for any reason.

That's a good answer, and is very close to what my first reaction to the question was.  And then I started over-analyzing...again. 
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TheAngryPacifist05

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2006, 10:24:36 PM »


So, if someone you knew (maybe not a best friend, just someone who you trusted not to be lying) told you that he or she killed a politician / government bureaucrat  (not in self defense), would you turn them in?


Absolutely not.  As it is, the police can't solve crimes without people telling them who did it anyway.  When was the last time the police actually solved a murder without a random tip?  (The last episode of Law & Order doesn't count!)  Most of the time, this is because they spend far too much time in the War On Drugs.

Besides, if I rat them out, they go to prison and then my money is being taken under the threat of murder to pay for someone who committed murder.  :)

-Windquake
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Lindsey

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2006, 10:26:11 PM »


So, if someone you knew (maybe not a best friend, just someone who you trusted not to be lying) told you that he or she killed a politician / government bureaucrat  (not in self defense), would you turn them in?


Absolutely not.  As it is, the police can't solve crimes without people telling them who did it anyway.  When was the last time the police actually solved a murder without a random tip?  (The last episode of Law & Order doesn't count!)  Most of the time, this is because they spend far too much time in the War On Drugs.

Besides, if I rat them out, they go to prison and then my money is being taken under the threat of murder to pay for someone who committed murder.  :)

-Windquake


Yet another angle.  I think he has pulled me to his side. 
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Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.
         -George W. Bush

aquabanianskakid

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2006, 10:34:10 PM »

I assumed "no". Not because I don't think it is wrong to kill someone. I'm assuming they are threatening my liberties directly. Plus I don't ever rat out friends. If I didn't agree with their actions, they wouldn't be my friend.
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zebraflood

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2006, 10:41:55 PM »

One could probably argue in the case of an authoritarian executive power wielding thug that the friend was in fact acting in self-defense after all.

I haven't voted yet. I'm trying to reconcile two immediate conflicting thoughts I had. Consistency is important.

Edit: There is no spoon.

« Last Edit: December 07, 2006, 11:54:32 PM by zebraflood »
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Brent

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2006, 10:51:05 PM »

Someone paid with tax money is essentially stealing their living from my neighbors and me.  They plan to keep doing it for as long as they can get away with it.  If I were to take that person's life, it would be in the defense of my property and the property of my neighbors.  If a thug comes up to me and demands my wallet, I am within my rights to shoot him dead to defend my property.  (I assume most people on this thread understand the correlation between defense of property and defense of life.)  Maybe I'm just vengeful, but it seems to me that the life of anyone who makes their living through coercion is forfeit.
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Bill Brasky

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Re: Tricky Question
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2006, 11:03:45 PM »

My first priority is to protect myself.  Getting involved with other peoples business is a good first step down a path I most likely wont enjoy.  Having harboured information the authorities would like to know makes me an accomplice by default, even if I turned him in.  I would then be under scrutiny for something I had no control over. 

The biggest problem in this scenario is not the action that took place between two other people, but the fact my "friend" included me in his problem.  That makes his problem my problem.  Not acting upon it places me in jeopardy of being blackmailed, and acting upon it makes me a rat.

The simplest solution is therefore the elimination of the friend. 

That means I vote "NO". 
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