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Author Topic: The Principle Behind Minarchy  (Read 18445 times)

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wtfk

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #60 on: May 18, 2007, 08:13:47 PM »

No, wtfk. I meant what I typed.

There was never an American government which ever printed its own currency, besides Lincolns' greenbacks, and we all should know how long that lasted.

Private banks have nearly always been our master, and private banks will still exist in any free market.

Think on it a while. Long and hard.

You're playing games.  We know the Fed prints the currency.  We know the fed and the government are...intermingled.  There's no problem with private banks printing currency, as long as they don't have legal tender laws (yeah--I meant what I wrote.)
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BKO

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #61 on: May 18, 2007, 08:44:20 PM »

The only 'intermingling' between the Federal Reserve and the government is the appointment of the FED board, which is entirely completed by the President. The FED has never even once been audited.

Privately owned and managed.

And laws are irrelevant. Money is a necessity.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2007, 08:46:17 PM by Brokor »
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wtfk

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #62 on: May 18, 2007, 11:13:54 PM »

Last I checked, the President runs the executive branch of the US Federal Government.

He sort of counts as government.

Like I said.  Keep the government out, and it's not an issue, because there will be a currency competition (and in such a market, you can bet people will only use gold-backed currency or some other commodity money.)
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BKO

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #63 on: May 19, 2007, 06:55:08 AM »

And just as I said -there is NO GOVERNMENT involvement which has been necessary for the banks to operate. The BOARD is a panel which attempts to gain legitimacy, and most people still believe that a PRIVATE CORPORATION is actually part of our government.

Sinking in yet? Still having trouble here? All the government has ever done is to grant authority and privilege to these private bankers. This can still be done within any proposed anarchist society, in fact it can be accomplished even easier.

markuzick

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #64 on: May 19, 2007, 08:59:41 AM »

And just as I said -there is NO GOVERNMENT involvement which has been necessary for the banks to operate. The BOARD is a panel which attempts to gain legitimacy, and most people still believe that a PRIVATE CORPORATION is actually part of our government.

Sinking in yet? Still having trouble here? All the government has ever done is to grant authority and privilege to these private bankers. This can still be done within any proposed anarchist society, in fact it can be accomplished even easier.


That's like saying that a public utility is private. Sorry, but the FED is the bastard child of the State. We are forced to use its money exclusively, under threat of prison or death. The socialists always instigate corruption in order to increase their power by lining their own and their friends pockets. They then try to pin the blame for the results on the free market so that they can give us more of the same. Society gets the government that it deserves. As long as so many people believe it's acceptable to use aggression, they will continue to use the State to rob and persecute their neighbors while awaiting their turn to be victimized by those who are, in turn, even more effective at using the State against them. We, the victims, must learn that it is impossible to make evil work for us. We must instead learn that in order to stop being victims that we must first stop victimising others.
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As the state feeds off of the limitation and destruction of legitimate government, anarchy is its essence.

To claim "economic rent" from someone Else's labor when applied to land, which is something no one can own outright, is in itself, to claim landlord status over raw nature. It is an attempt at coercive monopoly power that is at the root of statism.

wtfk

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #65 on: May 19, 2007, 01:22:57 PM »

+1  Legal tender laws make the Fed a de facto state institution.  Without the state monopoly, the banks can't hurt you.
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Caveman

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #66 on: May 19, 2007, 01:40:21 PM »

Sinking in yet? Still having trouble here? All the government has ever done is to grant authority and privilege to these private bankers. This can still be done within any proposed anarchist society, in fact it can be accomplished even easier.


Do you ever make sense? Theres no government in an anarchistic society to give privileges to private bankers, how will it be even easier when one of the parties involved doesn't exist?
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BKO

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #67 on: May 19, 2007, 03:04:38 PM »

Excellent question, Caveman. I want to ignore your insults and answer your question.

I would like you to tell me how any modern society absent government plans to operate without some form of money. Once you outline for me how you propose this, then I shall provide your answer.

Wtfk - I do not understand what you mean by "legal tender" laws. You will have to cite exact legal reference for me. I have extensively studied the constitution, common law, the UCC, FRC, USCA, and IRC for the past twelve years.

Gentlemen, what you propose is that this "state" is in control of the monetary system, when in fact, it has always been wealthy european banking cartels. Dice it any way you choose, but your definition and exaggerated claims do not hold up to the facts.

wtfk

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #68 on: May 19, 2007, 03:21:38 PM »

Excellent question, Caveman. I want to ignore your insults and answer your question.

I would like you to tell me how any modern society absent government plans to operate without some form of money. Once you outline for me how you propose this, then I shall provide your answer.

Wtfk - I do not understand what you mean by "legal tender" laws. You will have to cite exact legal reference for me. I have extensively studied the constitution, common law, the UCC, FRC, USCA, and IRC for the past twelve years.

Gentlemen, what you propose is that this "state" is in control of the monetary system, when in fact, it has always been wealthy european banking cartels. Dice it any way you choose, but your definition and exaggerated claims do not hold up to the facts.

Look at American money.  It says "legal tender for all debts public and private" on it.  That's because there are laws requiring anyone selling anything or holding debts from others to accept payment in federal reserve notes.  Those laws effectively invalidate other currency by disallowing people's right to say they will take only gold, etc., etc.
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BKO

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #69 on: May 19, 2007, 04:35:06 PM »

What is printed on currency is not law. It also says "In god we trust". Does that mean I must also trust in a God I don't believe in?

There is no law making this currency the only currency, nor is anybody forcing you to use it. It has become the standard money out of supply and demand, and because of need, nothing more. There are already movements out there (Liberty dollar) utilizing this very principle and attempting to take control of what is deemed currency. It would also behoove you to know that all power derived for the current federal reserve banks to operate comes from the March 6th and March 9th pres. Proclamations of FDR in 1933. The Bank Holiday has been in effect since that time, and under the emergency of war powers, the banks operate within the admiralty law, which is withstanding common law and the constitution. For an exact reference, I suggest looking up the term "Bank Holiday of March 6, 1933" in Blacks Law Dictionary, 6th edition. I have a copy myself, and I do not know of any online versions, sorry.

There is no "legal tender law", I am sorry to tell you.

wtfk

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #70 on: May 19, 2007, 05:52:37 PM »

Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

Addendum:  There's also this, incidentially:

Hon. Ron Paul Introduces HR 2779
THE HONEST MONEY ACT
REPEAL OF LEGAL TENDER LAWS
« Last Edit: May 19, 2007, 06:11:38 PM by wtfk »
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BKO

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #71 on: May 20, 2007, 04:40:05 AM »

"Legal tender", look up the term in Blacks Law.

This term only attempts to legitimize the currency, it does not make it THE ONLY CURRENCY BY LAW. Also, any note circulated by the banks specified above in your post are "legal" according to the definition.

You still have not told me how this "law" has become what you say it has.

markuzick

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #72 on: May 20, 2007, 06:11:15 AM »

Excellent question, Caveman. I want to ignore your insults and answer your question.

I would like you to tell me how any modern society absent government plans to operate without some form of money. Once you outline for me how you propose this, then I shall provide your answer.

Wtfk - I do not understand what you mean by "legal tender" laws. You will have to cite exact legal reference for me. I have extensively studied the constitution, common law, the UCC, FRC, USCA, and IRC for the past twelve years.

Gentlemen, what you propose is that this "state" is in control of the monetary system, when in fact, it has always been wealthy european banking cartels. Dice it any way you choose, but your definition and exaggerated claims do not hold up to the facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_United_States_government
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As the state feeds off of the limitation and destruction of legitimate government, anarchy is its essence.

To claim "economic rent" from someone Else's labor when applied to land, which is something no one can own outright, is in itself, to claim landlord status over raw nature. It is an attempt at coercive monopoly power that is at the root of statism.

BKO

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #73 on: May 20, 2007, 10:52:52 AM »

Are you suggesting that the private banks should operate as independent agencies? If you are, that is a very bad idea. Take a look at the CIA, they can do whatever they want without being held accountable. The CIA has been corrupt since day one, and look! There were Bush's at the table from its creation. Surprise, surprise.

What exactly are you suggesting, Markuzick?

wtfk

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #74 on: May 20, 2007, 02:31:22 PM »

"Legal tender", look up the term in Blacks Law.

This term only attempts to legitimize the currency, it does not make it THE ONLY CURRENCY BY LAW. Also, any note circulated by the banks specified above in your post are "legal" according to the definition.

You still have not told me how this "law" has become what you say it has.

I never said it was "the only currency."
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