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Author Topic: The Principle Behind Minarchy  (Read 18443 times)

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markuzick

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #45 on: May 09, 2007, 12:47:23 AM »

yeah the principle of minarchy is I don't want to be raped so much so please rape me just a little bit less.  :shock: The contradiction of rationality is obvious. If I was a statist and president of a state I would make sure that there would be a libertarian party in the state if it didn't already exist so make sure that the people question the whole morality of the state still wouldn't want to dismantle the state.

Although I don't agree with your opinion on the effect of libertarian politicians, you've nonetheless made an excellent, albeit blunt point.+1 (Don't let the trolls get you down.)

Hmmm... Blunt point. I made an oxymoron. :P
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As the state feeds off of the limitation and destruction of legitimate government, anarchy is its essence.

To claim "economic rent" from someone Else's labor when applied to land, which is something no one can own outright, is in itself, to claim landlord status over raw nature. It is an attempt at coercive monopoly power that is at the root of statism.

wtfk

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #46 on: May 09, 2007, 01:35:51 AM »

See the mirror.
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ladyattis

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #47 on: May 09, 2007, 01:39:08 PM »

Mark, you still haven't proven that I advocate political collectivism in my argument. So are you going to prove it or be a liar on that point? As for the quote regarding Hospers, so what? Rand also called Reagan a Hollywood Ham, and etc, but more importantly neither quote can be verified by her estate, so that means what you said is tantamount to hearsay and possibly a lie. So that means you go on ignore, Markie, for being a liar on two points. You haven't even refuted one of them. Kiss my ass and suck a fuck, Markie, you little liar.

-- Brede
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lapafrax

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #48 on: May 15, 2007, 04:26:09 PM »

Minarchy is based on the idea that liberty is so precious that we must use the tyranny of the State to enshrine and protect it from a populace that is too foolish and immoral to appreciate it. I submit that the inherent contradiction of such a system as well as the low regard for human nature that the implementation of this kind of system implies will ultimately result in a conflict that will lead to either the destruction of liberty and the enshrinement of the State with the Orwellian "logic" that "Slavery is freedom." or to the dismantling of the discredited State as it gives way to the true liberty of a system of non-monopolistic, competitive, voluntary governments.

Any comments? I'm ready to debate.

Minarchy is for idiots of logic.

Yeah, the initation of force is bad but we still need force in the form of a government.  Whatever dudes...  :lol:

http://www.freedomainradioshows.com/Traffic_Jams/FDR_672_Minarchsim_Libertarianism_and_Logic.mp3

Listen to the above.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2007, 04:56:51 PM by lapafrax »
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Taors

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #49 on: May 15, 2007, 09:26:49 PM »

Man, more Stefan Molyneux mp3's...
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Bill Brasky

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #50 on: May 16, 2007, 08:41:15 AM »

Minarchy is based on the idea that liberty is so precious that we must use the tyranny of the State to enshrine and protect it from a populace that is too foolish and immoral to appreciate it. I submit that the inherent contradiction of such a system as well as the low regard for human nature that the implementation of this kind of system implies will ultimately result in a conflict that will lead to either the destruction of liberty and the enshrinement of the State with the Orwellian "logic" that "Slavery is freedom." or to the dismantling of the discredited State as it gives way to the true liberty of a system of non-monopolistic, competitive, voluntary governments.

Any comments? I'm ready to debate.

Minarchy is for idiots of logic.

Yeah, the initation of force is bad but we still need force in the form of a government.  Whatever dudes...  :lol:

http://www.freedomainradioshows.com/Traffic_Jams/FDR_672_Minarchsim_Libertarianism_and_Logic.mp3

Listen to the above.

Yeah, so far I've heard the phrase "default position" about nineteen times, then he says I probably haven't convinced you of anything, as of yet.  welllll...  No.  Fuggin.  Shit. 

And then leaps right into this rediculous analogy of reducing your raping habits back to once a week.  Is this guy fucking insane?

I'm gonna finish listening to the whole thing, open minded.  And if this is the cream of the crop, just pack your shit and go the hell home because so far all he's done is sound like a one sided egomaniac.   Any anti-statist is gonna lap this stuff up like its covered in gravy.  He's preaching to the choir from the "default position" of anarchism supreme, anarchists don't need convincing.  Its like telling a thirsty man water is good. 
« Last Edit: May 16, 2007, 10:14:30 AM by Bill Brasky »
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Bill Brasky

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #51 on: May 16, 2007, 10:13:35 AM »

This guy's crazy, plain and simple.  Intelligent, no doubt, but crazy. 

He uses all these obscure examples chopping against HIS view of a mini-state while assuming anarchy will work perfectly.  I dont need to hear about cows.  Now I don't know if I want a cheeseburger or to read Watership Down. 

He is the perfect example of why there should be a drop out, opt out policy.  Go, dude.  Take off, 'eh?  Create a gulch somewhere and enjoy it because all this rambling nonsense goes absolutely nowhere. 

He has yet to show one example of theory in motion supporting his vision.  He seems like he knows what is bad, but can't begin to show how his concept of anarchy would prevail. 

I expected to hear some examples of anarchy applied to reality, how it would work.  I know the state is bad.

"How anarchism works is irrelevant" he just said.  Thats not the way to drive the bus.  "Its nobodys business how anarchy in society works". 

Jesus christ.  I can't believe he actually said that. 

I think I'd like to speak to this guy in person.  Does he attend NH functions?  PorcFest or any of that?

Oh!  Isn't this the guy who is in favor of DRO's?

I think I remember MobileDigit chastizing me over Moleneux's (sp) DRO theories. 

I think I've found a new hobby.  I want more.  I'll be polite, I'm interested.  He just personally invited me at the end of this podcast to engage. 
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Taors

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #52 on: May 16, 2007, 05:54:00 PM »

Do it. It'll be funny.
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markuzick

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #53 on: May 16, 2007, 06:38:02 PM »

This guy's crazy, plain and simple.  Intelligent, no doubt, but crazy. 

He uses all these obscure examples chopping against HIS view of a mini-state while assuming anarchy will work perfectly.  I dont need to hear about cows.  Now I don't know if I want a cheeseburger or to read Watership Down. 

He is the perfect example of why there should be a drop out, opt out policy.  Go, dude.  Take off, 'eh?  Create a gulch somewhere and enjoy it because all this rambling nonsense goes absolutely nowhere. 

He has yet to show one example of theory in motion supporting his vision.  He seems like he knows what is bad, but can't begin to show how his concept of anarchy would prevail. 

I expected to hear some examples of anarchy applied to reality, how it would work.  I know the state is bad.

"How anarchism works is irrelevant" he just said.  Thats not the way to drive the bus.  "Its nobodys business how anarchy in society works". 

Jesus christ.  I can't believe he actually said that. 

I think I'd like to speak to this guy in person.  Does he attend NH functions?  PorcFest or any of that?

Oh!  Isn't this the guy who is in favor of DRO's?

I think I remember MobileDigit chastizing me over Moleneux's (sp) DRO theories. 

I think I've found a new hobby.  I want more.  I'll be polite, I'm interested.  He just personally invited me at the end of this podcast to engage. 

Libertarian anarchy is voluntary government and it already exists. It's commonly called the free market. To whatever extent that there is freedom to exchange goods, services and ideas and that people are free to organize into businesses and non-profits, then to that extent, you have the principle of market anarchism in action.

Whenever someone proposes that some function of the State be privatized, e.g., food distribution, hundreds of objections will be raised against this idea, such as monopolization, price gouging, how will the poor pay for their food, cutthroat competition, who will service small markets, the inefficiency of having truck A sending company A's bread from the east coast to the west coast passing by company B's truck that's sending bread from the west coast to the east coast and how this waste of time and resources can be overcome by central planning.

The central planners fail to understand the importance of the incentives that are created by the free market are what cause the emergence of a spontaneous and flexible order though the seemingly chaotic billions of decisions of millions of people.
 
This is what is meant by leaving it to the market to figure out a solution. This is why people living in a free market have inexpensive, high quality food and great variety to choose from, while people living under central planning are fortunate if the can get on an hours long bread line to keep from outright starvation.

These same arguments, which amount to saying, "How the market works is irrelevant.", can be applied to all potential State functions.
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As the state feeds off of the limitation and destruction of legitimate government, anarchy is its essence.

To claim "economic rent" from someone Else's labor when applied to land, which is something no one can own outright, is in itself, to claim landlord status over raw nature. It is an attempt at coercive monopoly power that is at the root of statism.

BKO

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #54 on: May 17, 2007, 05:51:26 AM »

There is no true free market as long as the currency is controlled by private institutions. They have created wars, funded both sides continuously, and brought forth a system of control and usury which has crippled entire nations for well over two centuries.

It is only intellectual masturbation to assume the power resides in the hands of the marketeers, when the borrower is slave to the banker.

dalebert

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #55 on: May 17, 2007, 11:36:38 AM »

Minarchy is for idiots of logic.

Yeah, the initation of force is bad but we still need force in the form of a government.  Whatever dudes...  :lol:

http://www.freedomainradioshows.com/Traffic_Jams/FDR_672_Minarchsim_Libertarianism_and_Logic.mp3

Listen to the above.

Thanx for that link. It's funny that I was arguing much the same things to a friend the night before I listened to it, but he argues the point better. I think he's been of the philosophy for a longer time than I have so he's better at articulating what is to me still somewhat an intuitive thing. If you're a thoughtful person, as I believe I am, then you can't continue to ignore the cognitive dissonance. For a while, it's just something you feel. You see tyrannical abuses of power happening around you and the illusion of legitimacy (the notion that it's necessary for SOME people to use force agressively to maintain order) starts to crumble. It begins to happen faster and faster until finally there's just a click and you realize you're in the realm of anarchism. That's a word I don't care for but so far it's the only one I know of to describe the belief that no one should be morally justified in using force aggressively.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2008, 10:54:04 AM by Dalebert »
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wtfk

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #56 on: May 17, 2007, 11:38:00 AM »

There is no true free market as long as the currency is controlled by private institutions. They have created wars, funded both sides continuously, and brought forth a system of control and usury which has crippled entire nations for well over two centuries.

It is only intellectual masturbation to assume the power resides in the hands of the marketeers, when the borrower is slave to the banker.

You mean governments.  Governments that create legal tender laws and currencies not based on real money.  There's nothing wrong with banks minting coins and issuing notes backed by real money.
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ladyattis

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #57 on: May 17, 2007, 01:06:55 PM »

I don't agree with the freedomain radio piece for two reasons.

1) It rejects the right of individuals to form 'unions' for common protection and practices (aka laws).

2) It's a fucking strawman, need I go on?

-- Brede
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Taors

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #58 on: May 17, 2007, 07:29:53 PM »

Please go on, dear.
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BKO

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Re: The Principle Behind Minarchy
« Reply #59 on: May 18, 2007, 08:07:59 PM »

No, wtfk. I meant what I typed.

There was never an American government which ever printed its own currency, besides Lincolns' greenbacks, and we all should know how long that lasted.

Private banks have nearly always been our master, and private banks will still exist in any free market.

Think on it a while. Long and hard.
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