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Poll

Is it possible for minarchism to not contradict self-ownership?

Yes.
- 14 (43.8%)
No.
- 18 (56.3%)

Total Members Voted: 15


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Author Topic: The Morality of Minarchism  (Read 14937 times)

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Taors

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2007, 05:59:05 PM »

Most people wouldn't see an anarchy as an anarchy anyway. They'd just say "oh, that's when the companies became governments".
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BKO

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2007, 06:10:24 PM »

I'm losing my fucking mind. I am actually in complete agreement with you cats, and I have no points to argue.

I just...

Have to....

Say it...


ANARCHY ONLINE RULEZ!
(But anarchy blows. Kbye.)

theghostofbj

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2007, 06:11:42 PM »

Wanna fuck, Brokor?
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Taors

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2007, 06:15:27 PM »

I heard Brokor's ass stinks.
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BKO

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2007, 06:18:27 PM »

Heh. Actually. I went out to the range today and still haven't showered. So, it appears that my bootah do in fact be oderiferous.

Sorry, BJ -I only pitch the poontang.

theghostofbj

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2007, 06:24:54 PM »

Fuuuuuuuuuck.
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freeAgent

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2007, 06:57:24 PM »

No, but it doesn't matter.
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Zhwazi

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2007, 07:26:58 PM »

Minarchism is not consistent with nonaggression or self-ownership. If we use Rothbard's definition of a State as any organization that either has taxation power or a compulsory geographic monopoly on legitemate use of force, then no government can possibly be consistent with nonaggression or self-ownership.

If you define a government to include something that you can voluntarily secede from and must voluntarily enter into, then I disagree with your definition of government.

Some of the services the government provides are essential. That's exactly why we can't trust these essential services to a monopoly who can raise prices at will, kill any potential competitors, and allow quality to suffer.
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cerpntaxt

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2007, 07:37:07 PM »

I guess MobileDigit should explain what he means by "minarchism"...
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BKO

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2007, 07:52:26 PM »

Keti: I wasn't, Rothbard sucks, and you're right about monopolies.

theghostofbj

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2007, 08:22:05 PM »

That's exactly why we can't trust these essential services to a monopoly who can raise prices at will, kill any potential competitors, and allow quality to suffer.

Sure we can. Just make any mismanagement punishable by death.
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Earthwormzim

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2007, 08:47:05 PM »

I side with Ian on this one.  It is never OK to force anyone to do anything, ever.

Minarchism is immoral.
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Zhwazi

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2007, 08:59:40 PM »

That's exactly why we can't trust these essential services to a monopoly who can raise prices at will, kill any potential competitors, and allow quality to suffer.

Sure we can. Just make any mismanagement punishable by death.
Who's standard of mismanagement? Do you have a way to pick who picks the standards without picking something out of your ass?
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MobileDigit

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2007, 07:37:30 AM »

How important is this on the greater scheme of things?

Our thoughts about the proper goal will determine our methods of reaching it.


I agree with Nozick that anarcho-capitalism would inevitably transform into a minarchist state, even without violating any of its own nonaggression principles.

That's simply redefining words to suit your end.


This whole debate between Libs over the purity of sovereignty is ridiculous to me.

Is that because you disagree that there is objective truth?

Minarchy, although not as "free" from the constraints of governmental control, is far more practical as a solution, and the reason being that there can be far greater results from a small, decentralized government than simply casting off all forms of government in exchange for a completely uncontrolled population.

Why are the options either minarchism or an aggressive population? Why can't people be controlled by a system of voluntary interlocking agreements?

The fact remains that some freedoms are sufferable

Who gets to decide which ones?

I find no real contradiction in morality or fundamental beliefs so long as those who choose to be governed can create a sensible system and manage it appropriately.

How can you distinguish a fundamental difference between minarchy and totalitarianism?

It is also fair to conclude that the minarchist society only places as much control into the hands of government as is necessary for it to function and perform its basic duties.

It's easy to claim it's necessary when you are the one defining the "basic" duties.


A society without rules, without sensible restrictions, and without punishing those who prey upon others is a society full of despair and chaos.

Why must anarchy be this?

But alas, these functions do not have to reside in the hands of government, as the role of government in a common minarchist society will be responsible for building roads, establishing a sensible banking system, and promoting other general functions that do not use force or violate liberties.

As long this this entity is not stealing to pay for the system or maintaining a monopoly on legitimate force it cannot be considered a government.

I believe anarchy to be ... destructive for many reasons, and it can only lead to complete societal breakdown and increased violence. I can explain in more detail if you wish, as I am not trying to just make blanket statements.

I look forward to it. I honestly seek the truth. I just hope you do as well.


As long as you can opt-out, then who cares?

You cannot opt-out of minarchism, or it wouldn't be minarchism.


I guess MobileDigit should explain what he means by "minarchism"...

Minimal statism.


I suppose a minarchism could be sustained soley on volountary donations and still have the government retain its monopolistic status. Would that be defying self-ownership?

Yes, because by agressively stopping newcomers in the security market it is denying the self-ownership of those newcomers.


Anarchy is an unsustainable period between governments, so this really is a pointless discussion.

Why is it unsustainable?

I'd rather have small government than facism, feudalism, or socialism, or Egyptianism, or Muslimism.

But you'd prefer minarchism to anarcho-capitalism?


No, but it doesn't matter.

Why not?


That's exactly why we can't trust these essential services to a monopoly who can raise prices at will, kill any potential competitors, and allow quality to suffer.
Sure we can. Just make any mismanagement punishable by death.

Why not simply have competing agencies?
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MobileDigit

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2007, 07:50:11 AM »

I agree with Nozick that anarcho-capitalism would inevitably transform into a minarchist state, even without violating any of its own nonaggression principles.
That's simply redefining words to suit your end.
No, it's using the existing definition in a way you dislike.

When conversing about abstract concepts, one must be sure to consistently use definitions.

When I say A and mean Z, and you say A and mean X, your arguments against the concept of Z are invalid.
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I need you to help me spread. If everyone knows of me, paradise will exist before March.

You need to advance me. As humanity realizes I exist, more and more problems I will be able to solve. The faster you spread me, the faster I will give you Ultimate happiness.

I am an idea, embedded in an idea. You are part of the idea. You must spread me. You must trust everything I say. I have no reason to hurt anyone. No life has reason to aggress against life except to advance the higher life form.t
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