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Poll

Is it possible for minarchism to not contradict self-ownership?

Yes.
- 14 (43.8%)
No.
- 18 (56.3%)

Total Members Voted: 15


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Author Topic: The Morality of Minarchism  (Read 14925 times)

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ladyattis

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2007, 11:46:07 AM »
Short answer: yes.

Why? Because everything is consensual, especially if you accept how Locke views political power being something governing bodies inherit from individuals and not from itself. [ ]

-- Brede
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freeAgent

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2007, 03:17:38 PM »
I say it doesn't matter because I believe that "self ownership" can be violated in certain cases, such as when someone commits a crime.  If a person commits a crime, I believe that the community has a right to act in its defense.  This could include fining or imprisoning the criminal, which would clearly seem to violate "self ownership" taken to its extreme.
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cerpntaxt

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2007, 04:35:39 PM »
No shit, but that doesn't justify the acts...
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Taors

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2007, 05:27:26 PM »
freeAgent, don't pay attention to these liberal pansies.
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freeAgent

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2007, 05:35:52 PM »
Quote from: cerpntaxt on April 28, 2007, 04:35:39 PM
No shit, but that doesn't justify the acts...

What acts are you referring to?
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cerpntaxt

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2007, 08:14:29 PM »
Acts of aggression...
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freeAgent

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2007, 08:19:08 PM »
Quote from: cerpntaxt on April 28, 2007, 08:14:29 PM
Acts of aggression...

By which party?
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cerpntaxt

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2007, 08:22:04 PM »
By any party. The initiation of force. I don't understand what the problem is here.
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freeAgent

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2007, 08:31:05 PM »
Quote from: cerpntaxt on April 28, 2007, 08:22:04 PM
By any party. The initiation of force. I don't understand what the problem is here.

So you would say that if one person murders another, we should all just sit back and sigh because it's too bad?
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cerpntaxt

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2007, 10:03:26 PM »
No. I'm saying that it's bad. And I don't think forcing people to do things is ok either.
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freeAgent

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2007, 11:43:11 PM »
Quote from: cerpntaxt on April 28, 2007, 10:03:26 PM
No. I'm saying that it's bad. And I don't think forcing people to do things is ok either.

OK, but what would you actually *do* about someone who went around murdering other people?  Ostracization?  It seems like ostracization would be hard to enforce (as it's not enforced at all) and therefore easy to escape.  It is essentially a cartel scenario, and cartels rarely work, and the chance of them being successful decreases with the number of people involved.  I don't believe that is an adequate punishment for such crimes.  But to "force" a murderer to sit in jail violates his self ownership.  That's why I don't have a problem with it.
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theghostofbj

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2007, 12:51:49 AM »
Quote from: Keti on April 27, 2007, 08:59:40 PM
Quote from: theghostofbj on April 27, 2007, 08:22:05 PM
Quote from: Keti on April 27, 2007, 07:26:58 PM
That's exactly why we can't trust these essential services to a monopoly who can raise prices at will, kill any potential competitors, and allow quality to suffer.

Sure we can. Just make any mismanagement punishable by death.
Who's standard of mismanagement? Do you have a way to pick who picks the standards without picking something out of your ass?

:roll:
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cerpntaxt

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2007, 06:26:05 AM »
Quote from: freeAgent on April 28, 2007, 11:43:11 PM
Quote from: cerpntaxt on April 28, 2007, 10:03:26 PM
No. I'm saying that it's bad. And I don't think forcing people to do things is ok either.

OK, but what would you actually *do* about someone who went around murdering other people?  Ostracization?  It seems like ostracization would be hard to enforce (as it's not enforced at all) and therefore easy to escape.  It is essentially a cartel scenario, and cartels rarely work, and the chance of them being successful decreases with the number of people involved.  I don't believe that is an adequate punishment for such crimes.  But to "force" a murderer to sit in jail violates his self ownership.  That's why I don't have a problem with it.
And therefore we need government?
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freeAgent

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2007, 09:06:30 AM »
Quote from: cerpntaxt on April 29, 2007, 06:26:05 AM
Quote from: freeAgent on April 28, 2007, 11:43:11 PM
Quote from: cerpntaxt on April 28, 2007, 10:03:26 PM
No. I'm saying that it's bad. And I don't think forcing people to do things is ok either.

OK, but what would you actually *do* about someone who went around murdering other people?  Ostracization?  It seems like ostracization would be hard to enforce (as it's not enforced at all) and therefore easy to escape.  It is essentially a cartel scenario, and cartels rarely work, and the chance of them being successful decreases with the number of people involved.  I don't believe that is an adequate punishment for such crimes.  But to "force" a murderer to sit in jail violates his self ownership.  That's why I don't have a problem with it.
And therefore we need government?

Yup :)
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Taors

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Re: The Morality of Minarchism
« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2007, 09:29:37 AM »
Quote from: freeAgent on April 28, 2007, 11:43:11 PM
Quote from: cerpntaxt on April 28, 2007, 10:03:26 PM
No. I'm saying that it's bad. And I don't think forcing people to do things is ok either.

OK, but what would you actually *do* about someone who went around murdering other people?  Ostracization?  It seems like ostracization would be hard to enforce (as it's not enforced at all) and therefore easy to escape.  It is essentially a cartel scenario, and cartels rarely work, and the chance of them being successful decreases with the number of people involved.  I don't believe that is an adequate punishment for such crimes.  But to "force" a murderer to sit in jail violates his self ownership.  That's why I don't have a problem with it.

But...but...if you and all your friends just ignore the murderer, he'll go away!
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