The Free Talk Live BBS
Free Talk Live => The Polling Pit => Topic started by: ladyattis on October 23, 2006, 10:33:43 AM
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Well? :)
-- Bridget
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Morality should be doing as you please, whilst accepting the logical consequences of your actions.
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For me, egoism includes altruism, so I must say "both."
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For me, egoism includes altruism, so I must say "both."
Well said.
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I went with egoism, it's honest.
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For me, egoism includes altruism, so I must say "both."
That's just as logical as secular religion.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source
e‧go‧ism /ˈigoʊˌɪzəm, ˈɛgoʊ-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ee-goh-iz-uhm, eg-oh-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
noun
1. the habit of valuing everything only in reference to one's personal interest; selfishness (opposed to altruism).
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Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source
al‧tru‧ism /ˈæltruˌɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[al-troo-iz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
noun
1. the principle or practice of unselfish concern for or devotion to the welfare of others (opposed to egoism).
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Given the value that you place on the concern for the welfare of others, as well as on egoism, don't you think it's time to coin a new term to encompass both values? So I will ask you for the 3rd time:
If we can limit selfishness to rational self interest, in order to get rational selfishness, then why not limit altruism to rational empathy, in order to get rational- altruism.
Here's how it would look:
Just as
selfishness: Concern for yourself, without regard to the welfare or rights of others.
becomes
rational selfishness: Concern for yourself, but limited by ethical behavior and augmented by the pleasure of helping others.,
so
altruism: The principle or practice of unselfish concern for or devotion to the welfare of others.
becomes
rational- altruism: The principle or practice of rational selfish concern for or devotion to the welfare of others.
What do you think?
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the poll questions are kind of loaded.
you think it is so simple as a clear alternative between the two?
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the poll questions are kind of loaded.
you think it is so simple as a clear alternative between the two?
I agree, it should be more simple.
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Get The Balance Right - Depeche Mode
I'd say both, but my vote says option 3, cause it's something of a trick question! One must be able to appreciate both, but it benefits logic to extricate ones self as far as possible from ego based judgements sometimes in order to analyze situations.
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Get The Balance Right - Depeche Mode
I'd say both, but my vote says option 3, cause it's something of a trick question! One must be able to appreciate both, but it benefits logic to extricate ones self as far as possible from ego based judgements sometimes in order to analyze situations.
You put alot of thought into that. :P
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If we can limit selfishness to rational self interest, in order to get rational selfishness, then why not limit altruism to rational empathy, in order to get rational- altruism.
Here's how it would look:
Just as
selfishness: Concern for yourself, without regard to the welfare or rights of others.
becomes
rational selfishness: Concern for yourself, but limited by ethical behavior and augmented by the pleasure of helping others.,
so
altruism: The principle or practice of unselfish concern for or devotion to the welfare of others.
becomes
rational- altruism: The principle or practice of rational selfish concern for or devotion to the welfare of others.
What do you think?
Sounds good to me. I think most people are rational altruists, or try to be. One caveat with regard to "altruism" is that even though it is usually used to mean "helping others at one's own expense," the understanding is generally that it may be at one's own expense now, but is not ultimately so-- that is, there is a reasonable expectation that the act will bring rewards in the future, whether directly from those you helped or indirectly from those who observed you helping and have decided to help you on that basis, believing there are grounds for trust that you would do the same for them.
Therefore, "altruism" may be somewhat sacrificial, but only in the very short term for most people, most of the time, and arguably it is therefore usually self-interested even if not consciously so. This is most common in close-knit groups of people, such as family and smaller societies where people rely on established bonds of trust. The proper term for it in this sense is "reciprocal altruism."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocal_altruism
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If we can limit selfishness to rational self interest, in order to get rational selfishness, then why not limit altruism to rational empathy, in order to get rational- altruism.
Here's how it would look:
Just as
selfishness: Concern for yourself, without regard to the welfare or rights of others.
becomes
rational selfishness: Concern for yourself, but limited by ethical behavior and augmented by the pleasure of helping others.,
so
altruism: The principle or practice of unselfish concern for or devotion to the welfare of others.
becomes
rational- altruism: The principle or practice of rational selfish concern for or devotion to the welfare of others.
What do you think?
Sounds good to me. I think most people are rational altruists, or try to be. One caveat with regard to "altruism" is that even though it is usually used to mean "helping others at one's own expense," the understanding is generally that it may be at one's own expense now, but is not ultimately so-- that is, there is a reasonable expectation that the act will bring rewards in the future, whether directly from those you helped or indirectly from those who observed you helping and have decided to help you on that basis, believing there are grounds for trust that you would do the same for them.
Therefore, "altruism" may be somewhat sacrificial, but only in the very short term for most people, most of the time, and arguably it is therefore usually self-interested even if not consciously so. This is most common in close-knit groups of people, such as family and smaller societies where people rely on established bonds of trust. The proper term for it in this sense is "reciprocal altruism."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocal_altruism
Thanks for your input.
That's not exactly the same thing that I mean by rational-altruism. I'm talking about the case where love or empathic satisfaction is the only tat that you will receive for your tit. Actually, I'm having second thoughts about including altruism in the term at all, since it's original meaning is so contradictory to what most people really believe in. How about:
empathic-egoism: The principle or practice of rational selfish concern for or devotion to the welfare of others, with expectation of only emotional reward.