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Poll

Are international waters the best bet for "liberty in our lifetime"?

Yes - right next door to FSP, 200+ miles east of Rockingham
- 7 (9.1%)
Yes - an artificial seastead in warmer waters farther south of NH
- 12 (15.6%)
Yes - Free Isand Project on existing island around the Caribbean
- 13 (16.9%)
Yes - join Seasteading Institute's efforts in San Fransisco
- 5 (6.5%)
Yes - a specialized FOC cruise ship (ex)
- 6 (7.8%)
Yes - can't we just use Lindsey as a flotation device?
- 11 (14.3%)
Yes - something else
- 4 (5.2%)
No - it would divert efforts from better ideas
- 6 (7.8%)
No - terrible idea
- 7 (9.1%)
No - other
- 6 (7.8%)

Total Members Voted: 22


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Author Topic: Seasteading?  (Read 18354 times)

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Ecolitan

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Re: Seasteading?
« Reply #75 on: February 14, 2009, 10:10:00 PM »

40 years =/= fading out.  How 'bout 'remain obscure'.
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BonerJoe

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Re: Seasteading?
« Reply #76 on: February 14, 2009, 10:53:49 PM »

40 years =/= fading out.  How 'bout 'remain obscure'.

"Mental masturbation".
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Ecolitan

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Re: Seasteading?
« Reply #77 on: February 14, 2009, 10:58:22 PM »

There is another purpose for this place?
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John Shaw

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Re: Seasteading?
« Reply #78 on: February 14, 2009, 11:07:08 PM »

There is another purpose for this place?

Physical masturbation.
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NHArticleTen

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Re: Seasteading?
« Reply #79 on: February 15, 2009, 09:28:38 AM »

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gibson042

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Re: Seasteading?
« Reply #80 on: February 15, 2009, 03:00:52 PM »

Quote
Q. How much fuel does a cruise ship use?

A. To put it in perspective, the fleet of U.S. flagged ships sailing interisland Hawaiian cruises (spending 96 hours of the week idle in port) run a price tag of nearly $250,000 a week to fuel each vessel, lifeboats and tender boats. These ships range from about 70,000 tons - 93.000 tons.

Most cruise ships are at sea much more than this, and use more fuel from week to week. Much depends on itinerary, sea conditions, weight and other variables.

That's running most of the time, of course. I guess you could spend a lot of your time adrift, and you don't need as much in the way of power if you're not hosting all that luxury, but still... Big bucks for a big ship.

How big a ship are we talking about?  The Pride of Hawaii can hold 2846 passengers... annual fuel costs of $4568 per person are probably comparable to property taxes (let alone mortgage payments) for those accustomed to the high standard of living offered on board.  Estimating total upkeep costs about double that of fuel and factoring in profit, annual room fees of $10,000 or so per person are probably within reach for upper and even some middle class people.  And that's today, if someone offers it.
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Seasteading?
« Reply #81 on: February 16, 2009, 02:42:44 AM »

Quote
Q. How much fuel does a cruise ship use?

A. To put it in perspective, the fleet of U.S. flagged ships sailing interisland Hawaiian cruises (spending 96 hours of the week idle in port) run a price tag of nearly $250,000 a week to fuel each vessel, lifeboats and tender boats. These ships range from about 70,000 tons - 93.000 tons.

Most cruise ships are at sea much more than this, and use more fuel from week to week. Much depends on itinerary, sea conditions, weight and other variables.

That's running most of the time, of course. I guess you could spend a lot of your time adrift, and you don't need as much in the way of power if you're not hosting all that luxury, but still... Big bucks for a big ship.

How big a ship are we talking about?  The Pride of Hawaii can hold 2846 passengers... annual fuel costs of $4568 per person are probably comparable to property taxes (let alone mortgage payments) for those accustomed to the high standard of living offered on board.  Estimating total upkeep costs about double that of fuel and factoring in profit, annual room fees of $10,000 or so per person are probably within reach for upper and even some middle class people.  And that's today, if someone offers it.
And where are you going to grow food/create wealth?  Those ships cannot operate independently, they rely on docking at ports and spending lots of money that comes from tourists. 

It would be awesome to make this work, but it's pretty much impossible unless you're comfortable with living in poverty for a long time.
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Bill Brasky

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Re: Seasteading?
« Reply #82 on: February 16, 2009, 03:56:54 AM »

Quote
Q. How much fuel does a cruise ship use?

A. To put it in perspective, the fleet of U.S. flagged ships sailing interisland Hawaiian cruises (spending 96 hours of the week idle in port) run a price tag of nearly $250,000 a week to fuel each vessel, lifeboats and tender boats. These ships range from about 70,000 tons - 93.000 tons.

Most cruise ships are at sea much more than this, and use more fuel from week to week. Much depends on itinerary, sea conditions, weight and other variables.

That's running most of the time, of course. I guess you could spend a lot of your time adrift, and you don't need as much in the way of power if you're not hosting all that luxury, but still... Big bucks for a big ship.

How big a ship are we talking about?  The Pride of Hawaii can hold 2846 passengers... annual fuel costs of $4568 per person are probably comparable to property taxes (let alone mortgage payments) for those accustomed to the high standard of living offered on board.  Estimating total upkeep costs about double that of fuel and factoring in profit, annual room fees of $10,000 or so per person are probably within reach for upper and even some middle class people.  And that's today, if someone offers it.
And where are you going to grow food/create wealth?  Those ships cannot operate independently, they rely on docking at ports and spending lots of money that comes from tourists. 

It would be awesome to make this work, but it's pretty much impossible unless you're comfortable with living in poverty for a long time.

I don't think thats actually the issue.  Income is easily generated by allowing people on  the ship.  Just like any ship, really.  Tourists would enjoy the temporary lifestyle aboard.  Thats how Disneyland makes money, they don't export any goods.  You'd have your permanent residents who share ownership, and tourist renters, who stay a week or lease for a month, whatever.  There would be costs associated with both, but you could expect the short term tourist renters to probably absorb the brunt of the cost, if you had enough of them.  In fact, if the owners were few enough, they would actually make money by owning.  The business model is no different than any other cruise ship.  Cruise ships are enormously profitable, otherwise they wouldn't exist. 

The more difficult details revolve around ownership of the vessel.  Start-up costs are what make this impractical. 
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Seasteading?
« Reply #83 on: February 16, 2009, 05:58:06 AM »

Quote
Q. How much fuel does a cruise ship use?

A. To put it in perspective, the fleet of U.S. flagged ships sailing interisland Hawaiian cruises (spending 96 hours of the week idle in port) run a price tag of nearly $250,000 a week to fuel each vessel, lifeboats and tender boats. These ships range from about 70,000 tons - 93.000 tons.

Most cruise ships are at sea much more than this, and use more fuel from week to week. Much depends on itinerary, sea conditions, weight and other variables.

That's running most of the time, of course. I guess you could spend a lot of your time adrift, and you don't need as much in the way of power if you're not hosting all that luxury, but still... Big bucks for a big ship.

How big a ship are we talking about?  The Pride of Hawaii can hold 2846 passengers... annual fuel costs of $4568 per person are probably comparable to property taxes (let alone mortgage payments) for those accustomed to the high standard of living offered on board.  Estimating total upkeep costs about double that of fuel and factoring in profit, annual room fees of $10,000 or so per person are probably within reach for upper and even some middle class people.  And that's today, if someone offers it.
And where are you going to grow food/create wealth?  Those ships cannot operate independently, they rely on docking at ports and spending lots of money that comes from tourists. 

It would be awesome to make this work, but it's pretty much impossible unless you're comfortable with living in poverty for a long time.

I don't think thats actually the issue.  Income is easily generated by allowing people on  the ship.  Just like any ship, really.  Tourists would enjoy the temporary lifestyle aboard.  Thats how Disneyland makes money, they don't export any goods.  You'd have your permanent residents who share ownership, and tourist renters, who stay a week or lease for a month, whatever.  There would be costs associated with both, but you could expect the short term tourist renters to probably absorb the brunt of the cost, if you had enough of them.  In fact, if the owners were few enough, they would actually make money by owning.  The business model is no different than any other cruise ship.  Cruise ships are enormously profitable, otherwise they wouldn't exist. 

The more difficult details revolve around ownership of the vessel.  Start-up costs are what make this impractical. 
No, now you're not talking about seasteading, you're talking about starting a cruise ship company.
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"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

gibson042

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Re: Seasteading?
« Reply #84 on: February 16, 2009, 12:20:01 PM »

No, now you're not talking about seasteading, you're talking about starting a cruise ship company.

Why must the two endeavors be exclusive?
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Bill Brasky

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Re: Seasteading?
« Reply #85 on: February 16, 2009, 09:47:46 PM »

Quote
Q. How much fuel does a cruise ship use?

A. To put it in perspective, the fleet of U.S. flagged ships sailing interisland Hawaiian cruises (spending 96 hours of the week idle in port) run a price tag of nearly $250,000 a week to fuel each vessel, lifeboats and tender boats. These ships range from about 70,000 tons - 93.000 tons.

Most cruise ships are at sea much more than this, and use more fuel from week to week. Much depends on itinerary, sea conditions, weight and other variables.

That's running most of the time, of course. I guess you could spend a lot of your time adrift, and you don't need as much in the way of power if you're not hosting all that luxury, but still... Big bucks for a big ship.

How big a ship are we talking about?  The Pride of Hawaii can hold 2846 passengers... annual fuel costs of $4568 per person are probably comparable to property taxes (let alone mortgage payments) for those accustomed to the high standard of living offered on board.  Estimating total upkeep costs about double that of fuel and factoring in profit, annual room fees of $10,000 or so per person are probably within reach for upper and even some middle class people.  And that's today, if someone offers it.
And where are you going to grow food/create wealth?  Those ships cannot operate independently, they rely on docking at ports and spending lots of money that comes from tourists. 

It would be awesome to make this work, but it's pretty much impossible unless you're comfortable with living in poverty for a long time.

I don't think thats actually the issue.  Income is easily generated by allowing people on  the ship.  Just like any ship, really.  Tourists would enjoy the temporary lifestyle aboard.  Thats how Disneyland makes money, they don't export any goods.  You'd have your permanent residents who share ownership, and tourist renters, who stay a week or lease for a month, whatever.  There would be costs associated with both, but you could expect the short term tourist renters to probably absorb the brunt of the cost, if you had enough of them.  In fact, if the owners were few enough, they would actually make money by owning.  The business model is no different than any other cruise ship.  Cruise ships are enormously profitable, otherwise they wouldn't exist. 

The more difficult details revolve around ownership of the vessel.  Start-up costs are what make this impractical. 
No, now you're not talking about seasteading, you're talking about starting a cruise ship company.

Property can be rented out.  
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Alex Libman

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Re: Seasteading?
« Reply #86 on: April 18, 2009, 10:06:05 PM »

So the James Randi skeptics are taking a whack at Seasteading now.

Watch out for the splash.  :lol:
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anarchir

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Re: Seasteading?
« Reply #87 on: April 19, 2009, 01:24:05 AM »

So the James Randi skeptics are taking a whack at Seasteading now.

Watch out for the splash.  :lol:


731 posts ..... 1 member ignored.... who is this?

OK....I figured it out...It's fucking Alex.

Only 1 member is ignoring you cuz you changed your fucking username.
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NHArticleTen

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Re: Seasteading?
« Reply #88 on: April 19, 2009, 10:19:10 AM »


seasteading...

yeah, let's make it easy for them to get rid of the dissidents and all go to an island or all get on a boat...

island=nuke-attack/biological-attack/chemical-attack=all gone...poof

boat=see above...poof...

fail=fail

...

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Alex Libman

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Re: Seasteading?
« Reply #89 on: April 19, 2009, 10:31:25 AM »

First of all, seasteading is all about decentralization.  It's gonna take a lot of nukes, and nukes are expensive, especially in PR terms.  They'll have to convince people that we're evil terrorists.  If we're sitting there in New Hampshire and not paying taxes, the sheep can be made angry at us for "not paying our fare share".  But if we're out there somewhere else...  maybe they'll just let us go...  And remember, different seasteads can have different ideologies, including greens, commies, whatever.  If the peace nuts protest taking out an asshole like Saddam, won't they protest for us as well?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 10:33:36 AM by Richard IV »
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