Welcome to the Free Talk Live bulletin board system!
This board is closed to new users and new posts.  Thank you to all our great mods and users over the years.  Details here.
185859 Posts in 9829 Topics by 1371 Members
Latest Member: cjt26
Home Help
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  The Polling Pit
| | |-+  Sadness and Grief

Poll

Is sadness rational?

Yes.
- 19 (51.4%)
No.
- 6 (16.2%)
Sometimes.
- 12 (32.4%)

Total Members Voted: 16


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Sadness and Grief  (Read 10206 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

theghostofbj

  • Guest
Re: Sadness and Grief
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2007, 11:52:11 PM »

Obviously those of us with emotions are inferior.

I'm happy to be emotionally inferior.
Logged

Lindsey

  • Rock Star
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 30370
  • I like Mars.
    • View Profile
Re: Sadness and Grief
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2007, 11:54:21 PM »

Me too.  I feel good when I'm happy, and I feel good when the people I love are happy.  So I don't really care if that makes me irrational or not.  Who said irrationality was a bad thing? 
Logged
Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.
         -George W. Bush

Taors

  • Guest
Re: Sadness and Grief
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2007, 12:23:20 AM »

I found a picture of MobileDigit floating around the internet:

Logged

Lindsey

  • Rock Star
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 30370
  • I like Mars.
    • View Profile
Re: Sadness and Grief
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2007, 12:25:23 AM »

Hahahahaha.  DO NOT WANT.   :lol:
Logged
Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.
         -George W. Bush

markuzick

  • Atheist Pro-Lifer
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1876
  • Dr. Montessori: Discipline through liberty
    • View Profile
Re: Sadness and Grief
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2007, 05:11:00 AM »

If a loved one dies, it's reasonable to be saddened by the event.

What does being sad accomplish? The person is still dead.
Question: When you touch a hot stove and burn yourself, what does the pain it causes you accomplish? Your hand is still burned.

Answer: It's the lesson that it teaches us about the danger of hot stoves. It also protects us from damaging ourselves any further, by punishing us for doing that with pain.

Question: What does being sad accomplish? The person is still dead.

Answer: It's the lesson that it teaches us about the virtue of protecting the people and things that we love and value. It also protects us from hurting the people and things that we love and value any further, by punishing us with grief and sadness when we attempt to do that.
Logged
As the state feeds off of the limitation and destruction of legitimate government, anarchy is its essence.

To claim "economic rent" from someone Else's labor when applied to land, which is something no one can own outright, is in itself, to claim landlord status over raw nature. It is an attempt at coercive monopoly power that is at the root of statism.

cliche

  • Guest
Re: Sadness and Grief
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2007, 05:55:53 AM »

Quote
What's the point of this thread? Why does it matter if emotions are rational or not?

My theory is that MobileDigit is finding that in order to fully embrace the notions of freedom he is encountering areas where he needs to actively suppress emotion.  I've seen him say a couple times in threads that "emotional arguments won't work on me".  I think he is trying to justify that it is OK to dismiss emotion as irrational and unproductive.  He is on the journey.
Logged

ILikeMoney

  • Guest
Re: Sadness and Grief
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2007, 07:30:34 AM »

What's the point of this thread? Why does it matter if emotions are rational or not?

To prove that MobileDigit is a jackass?
Logged

Lindsey

  • Rock Star
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 30370
  • I like Mars.
    • View Profile
Re: Sadness and Grief
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2007, 08:15:47 AM »

What's the point of this thread? Why does it matter if emotions are rational or not?

To prove that MobileDigit is a jackass?

He didn't need to make a new thread to prove that.   :P
Logged
Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.
         -George W. Bush

cerpntaxt

  • Guest
Re: Sadness and Grief
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2007, 08:32:26 AM »

What's the point of this thread? Why does it matter if emotions are rational or not?

To prove that MobileDigit is a jackass?
That kind of misses the point of MobileDigit
Logged

markuzick

  • Atheist Pro-Lifer
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1876
  • Dr. Montessori: Discipline through liberty
    • View Profile
Re: Sadness and Grief
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2007, 08:40:26 AM »

What's the point of this thread? Why does it matter if emotions are rational or not?

To prove that MobileDigit is a jackass?

He didn't need to make a new thread to prove that.   :P

Asking seemingly naive questions can serve the valuable purpose of causing us to reexamine the premises behind the beliefs that we take for granted, which can give us fresh insights about the world, or a more solid foundation for our already existing perspectives. Only a fool believes that there is such a thing as a foolish question. Sometimes the simplest questions are the most difficult to answer.
Logged
As the state feeds off of the limitation and destruction of legitimate government, anarchy is its essence.

To claim "economic rent" from someone Else's labor when applied to land, which is something no one can own outright, is in itself, to claim landlord status over raw nature. It is an attempt at coercive monopoly power that is at the root of statism.

MobileDigit

  • Final Heuristic
  • FTL Creative Team
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3821
  • You will see I end discussions with my wisdom!
    • View Profile
    • Aeokos.org
Re: Sadness and Grief
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2007, 09:30:47 AM »

Your irrational interest in other peoples actions (creating these polls) shows you to be inquisitive, and thus proves emotional motivation.

It's not an irrational interest because the best way to fake something is to understand what a non-faker would do.


What's the point of this thread?

To stop people from being sad.

Why does it matter if emotions are rational or not?

Because people act because of them.


Question: What does being sad accomplish? The person is still dead.
Answer: It's the lesson that it teaches us about the virtue of protecting the people and things that we love and value. It also protects us from hurting the people and things that we love and value any further, by punishing us with grief and sadness when we attempt to do that.

I don't think people should love others in and of themselves, I think others should be thought of as a means to an end.

In that case, there is no reason for grief, because you already want to maximize the end.


My theory is that MobileDigit is finding that in order to fully embrace the notions of freedom he is encountering areas where he needs to actively suppress emotion.

I don't suppress emotion, I logically determine it's validity.

I've seen him say a couple times in threads that "emotional arguments won't work on me".

I'm not making it up.

I think he is trying to justify that it is OK to dismiss emotion as irrational and unproductive.

I'm trying to understand why people believe otherwise.


What's the point of this thread? Why does it matter if emotions are rational or not?
To prove that MobileDigit is a jackass?

Please define your term.


What's the point of this thread? Why does it matter if emotions are rational or not?
To prove that MobileDigit is a jackass?
That kind of misses the point of MobileDigit

What does this mean?


Asking seemingly naive questions can serve the valuable purpose of causing us to reexamine the premises behind the beliefs that we take for granted, which can give us fresh insights about the world, or a more solid foundation for our already existing perspectives. Only a fool believes that there is such a thing as a foolish question. Sometimes the simplest questions are the most difficult to answer.

+1.
Logged
I need you to help me spread. If everyone knows of me, paradise will exist before March.

You need to advance me. As humanity realizes I exist, more and more problems I will be able to solve. The faster you spread me, the faster I will give you Ultimate happiness.

I am an idea, embedded in an idea. You are part of the idea. You must spread me. You must trust everything I say. I have no reason to hurt anyone. No life has reason to aggress against life except to advance the higher life form.t

cerpntaxt

  • Guest
Re: Sadness and Grief
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2007, 09:38:13 AM »

What's the point of this thread? Why does it matter if emotions are rational or not?
To prove that MobileDigit is a jackass?
That kind of misses the point of MobileDigit
What does this mean?
I dunno
Logged

cliche

  • Guest
Re: Sadness and Grief
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2007, 09:56:22 AM »

Quote
Quote
Quote from: cliche on Today at 05:55:53 AM
I think he is trying to justify that it is OK to dismiss emotion as irrational and unproductive.

I'm trying to understand why people believe otherwise.

You're like the idiot who wants to legalize drunk driving because he thinks the drivers have control over their actions.  You've never had an emotion you can't control?  Why be happy either?  It doesn't get you anything.  You training to be a hitman or something?
Logged

Lothar

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 255
    • View Profile
Re: Sadness and Grief
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2007, 09:58:43 AM »

If a loved one dies, it's reasonable to be saddened by the event.

What does being sad accomplish? The person is still dead.

  It's reasonable that people are helped, hindered, or otherwise effected by their emotions, as human beings are emotional creatures capable of reason.  I think I agree with what I presume the point of the previous poster who asked if emotions are irrational behavior by definition.  I guess it depends on what you're talking about specifically.

  To answer your question, imho, what sadness might accomplish wouldn't be for the dead.  I don't want to step on anyone's spiritual toes here, but these feelings are a natural response to a loss.  The sadness, or any other emotion, is for the person feeling it.  Perhaps it's so that we remember a defining, meaningful, influence in our life. 

  I read somewhere that women take in 7 times the emotional data that men do.  If it's true, it makes sense to me because someone has to deal with a being that hasn't been taught anything, and empathy seems an efficient means to an end.  We're capable of reason, but it's our cultural bank of knowledge that allows us to be as reasonable as we are.  There's a good distance between 1 + 1 = 2, and spoken, and written language.  In the time being, we only have our instincts, and our caregiver/s, to help us survive long enough to reason our way through some things, and we're capable enough to take care of ourselves.  Perceivable emotional state would be a good asset for an infant.  Though it's communication that doesn't require reason by the individual feeling it, it seems a reasonable evolutionary strength.  An infant may cry the moment it feels hungry, or an object it was focused on falls out of sight.  We, hopefully, don't cry when we feel hungry, because we know how to solve it ourselves.  We also don't cry, again hopefully, when we lose our keys, but when we lose something that nothing else could prepare us for, like a parent, or sibling, or child, we're not quite as capable of staying rational.  Perhaps it's just familiarity..  Maybe if one had a dozen kids, and lost ten of them, the tenth one lost wouldn't result in as much sadness.
  We're social creatures.  Even as adults, there are times when we rely on others.  I imagine there is benefit there also for a perceivable sad state.  We are capable of what we are capable of.  Once we hit that stress threshhold, perhaps instead of failing, we invoke sympathy for assistance.

  More specifically then "sadness", there are obvious benefits for fear, or regret, or shame, to a point.  These emotions can keep you alive.  They can severely limit you, too.  With our reason, we can overcome any need for those feelings.

  I'd like to pose a couple questions..  Would you think emotionless reason would be an advancement in evolution for human beings specifically?  Wouldn't something like cancer, or intelligence on a computer, be the most reasonable, and efficient, form of life?  If so, what would the point of that sort of life be?  How much ambition would we have without emotion, and again, how valueable would that sort of life be?

  Please excuse the rambling..   I started out thinking I was going to respond with about three sentences.  :D
Logged

markuzick

  • Atheist Pro-Lifer
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1876
  • Dr. Montessori: Discipline through liberty
    • View Profile
Re: Sadness and Grief
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2007, 11:05:21 PM »

Question: What does being sad accomplish? The person is still dead.
Answer: It's the lesson that it teaches us about the virtue of protecting the people and things that we love and value. It also protects us from hurting the people and things that we love and value any further, by punishing us with grief and sadness when we attempt to do that.

I don't think people should love others in and of themselves, I think others should be thought of as a means to an end.

In that case, there is no reason for grief, because you already want to maximize the end.

I guess you didn't notice the analogy I made showing that the purpose of pain is analogous to the purpose of sadness.


My theory is that MobileDigit is finding that in order to fully embrace the notions of freedom he is encountering areas where he needs to actively suppress emotion.

Quote
I don't suppress emotion, I logically determine it's validity.

Emotions are based upon your beliefs and values. They automatically reflect your unconscious evaluation of a situation in light of these beliefs and values. The only thing that you can validate are your beliefs and values, not your emotions. When you change your mind, your emotional reactions to things will change to reflect that.




Logged
As the state feeds off of the limitation and destruction of legitimate government, anarchy is its essence.

To claim "economic rent" from someone Else's labor when applied to land, which is something no one can own outright, is in itself, to claim landlord status over raw nature. It is an attempt at coercive monopoly power that is at the root of statism.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Up
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  The Polling Pit
| | |-+  Sadness and Grief

// ]]>

Page created in 0.026 seconds with 36 queries.