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Free Talk Live => The Polling Pit => Topic started by: AlexLibman on August 24, 2007, 09:34:57 PM

Title: Mensa
Post by: AlexLibman on August 24, 2007, 09:34:57 PM
Inspired by a recent article in their newsletter (http://www.freestateproject.org/news/media_archive/lynn_pina_mensa_bulletin) about the Free State Project:

(CLICK ABOVE LINK IF BELOW IMAGES DON'T RENDER FOR SOME REASON)


(http://www.alexlibman.com/__imagebucket/LynnJuly2007Bulletin1.jpg) (http://www.alexlibman.com/__imagebucket/LynnJuly2007Bulletin1.jpg)


(PAGE BREAK -- CLICK IMAGE ABOVE OR BELOW FOR HIGHER RESOLUTION)


(http://www.alexlibman.com/__imagebucket/LynnJulyBulletin2.jpg) (http://www.alexlibman.com/__imagebucket/LynnJulyBulletin2.jpg)

[PLEASE DIGG (http://www.digg.com/political_opinion/The_Free_State_Project_in_The_Mensa_Bulletin)]

Title: Re: Mensa
Post by: Ed on August 25, 2007, 12:47:45 AM
Quote
Take over the government of a small state

Uh huh (http://www.freetownproject.com).
Title: Re: Mensa
Post by: phantomofroute66 on August 25, 2007, 04:31:43 AM
If I could get in, it would be by the skin of my teeth.  Everything is relative.  I don't really care to be their village idiot.
Title: Re: Mensa
Post by: Slim on August 25, 2007, 02:24:47 PM
Quote from: Ed on August 25, 2007, 12:47:45 AM
Quote
Take over the government of a small state


That was one part of the article that I thought was not written well. If I was the writer I would have written "To influence the existing population to move towards liberty". I really dislike when people use the words "take over".
Title: Re: Mensa
Post by: bonerjoe on August 25, 2007, 03:56:12 PM
Quote from: Slim on August 25, 2007, 02:24:47 PM
Quote from: Ed on August 25, 2007, 12:47:45 AM
Quote
Take over the government of a small state


That was one part of the article that I thought was not written well. If I was the writer I would have written "To influence the existing population to move towards liberty". I really dislike when people use the words "take over".

Because it is necessary to "take over". The thieves like their hired government leg breakers too much.
Title: Re: Mensa
Post by: Ed on August 25, 2007, 04:17:03 PM
Quote from: Slim on August 25, 2007, 02:24:47 PM
Quote from: Ed on August 25, 2007, 12:47:45 AM
Quote
Take over the government of a small state


That was one part of the article that I thought was not written well. If I was the writer I would have written "To influence the existing population to move towards liberty". I really dislike when people use the words "take over".

She was just using the original stance that the FSP promoted.
Title: Re: Mensa
Post by: Zhwazi on August 25, 2007, 05:38:09 PM
I have no respect for groups that basically exist just to say how smart they are instead of doing something actually useful with all that supposed brainpower. I could probably get in if I tried but just don't care.
Title: Re: Mensa
Post by: The Champ on August 25, 2007, 05:52:14 PM
Quote from: Keti on August 25, 2007, 05:38:09 PM
I have no respect for groups that basically exist just to say how smart they are instead of doing something actually useful with all that supposed brainpower. I could probably get in if I tried but just don't care.

+1.  When I think of Mensa I picture a bunch of uncoordinated, smug, badly dressed twats patting each other on the back and discussing how great it is to belong to the cognitive elite.

I realise this is childish, totally unjustified and an entirely inaccurate interpretation of the organisation, so apologies in advance to any offended mensans.
Title: Re: Mensa
Post by: phantomofroute66 on August 25, 2007, 07:09:19 PM
Looks, strength, intellect, and money are interpersonal power resources.  I'm unaware of any organized societies for beautiful, rich, or strong people.  Why do smart people need one?
Title: Re: Mensa
Post by: AlexLibman on August 25, 2007, 08:03:52 PM
Quote from: phantomofroute66 on August 25, 2007, 07:09:19 PM
I'm unaware of any organized societies for beautiful, rich, or strong people.

There are many such societies of varying degree of cohesiveness, scope, and scale, built around modeling schools, bodybuilding clubs, yacht and country clubs, Porsche owner clubs, etc...  And there's nothing wrong with that!  There's also nothing wrong with the fact that smart people tend to congregate together, but it's usually based on a tighter criteria: prestigious alumni clubs, professional groups, academic societies, etc.  It's beyond me who'd want to hang out with high-IQ people in general, no matter if they're linguists or economists or programmers or chemists or doctors or lawyers or memorizers of phone books...
Title: Re: Mensa
Post by: ladyattis on August 27, 2007, 01:13:07 PM
LOL. I think I did one of their tests a while back I got around 110 to 125. Frankly, I hate those tests, especially the numbers plus fruit/object/etc grid tests since I can never figure out what they want me to do in the first damn place! Anymore, I find these pleads to high IQ as being a sign of true intelligence or adaptability to be a farce. Lets get one thing straight, IQ tests were designed to see which children needed a more 'adult'-like educational structure versus other children, but not to see which ones were truly smarter from one and other. Besides, you'd think that these so-called geniuses would be on some walled, gardened, concrete, well-armed and protected conclave trying to figure out the mysteries of the universe so you can get better tasting coffee in the morning, but such is not the case. I've seen the kind of folks that score high on the IQ scores, often they work as postal couriers or do some other no-name job. So, whatever these folks have to offer me is exactly zero.

-- Brede
Title: Re: Mensa
Post by: mikehz on August 27, 2007, 01:47:24 PM
I doubt they'd take me, but my wife would get in. She tested pretty high. I always did go for the smart girls.

One of my many brothers-in-law, Larry, is an auto mechanic who never attended college. He was in trouble in high school a lot, and so his folks took him to a shrink who tested the kid's I.Q. Well, Larry tested out at over 150. Turns out, he was bored in school.

He was a pit boss at the Indianapolis Speedway, and loves working on racing vehicles. He now specializes in building racing pickups, and can fix anything. Anything! He once build me a GM van. I'd take it into my local garage, and they'd lift the hood and get very excited. "Wow--who put this beauty together!" they'd ask.

Unfortunately, the guy's overweight, and has sleep apnea. His doctor subscribed amphetamine to keep him from dozing off during the day. He's a kick to listen to, since he'll rattle on in a rapid voice, talking intelligently about whatever interests him.
Title: Re: Mensa
Post by: Bill Brasky on August 28, 2007, 04:20:01 AM
Quote from: ladyattis on August 27, 2007, 01:13:07 PM
LOL. I think I did one of their tests a while back I got around 110 to 125. Frankly, I hate those tests, especially the numbers plus fruit/object/etc grid tests since I can never figure out what they want me to do in the first damn place! Anymore, I find these pleads to high IQ as being a sign of true intelligence or adaptability to be a farce. Lets get one thing straight, IQ tests were designed to see which children needed a more 'adult'-like educational structure versus other children, but not to see which ones were truly smarter from one and other. Besides, you'd think that these so-called geniuses would be on some walled, gardened, concrete, well-armed and protected conclave trying to figure out the mysteries of the universe so you can get better tasting coffee in the morning, but such is not the case. I've seen the kind of folks that score high on the IQ scores, often they work as postal couriers or do some other no-name job. So, whatever these folks have to offer me is exactly zero.

-- Brede

You're just jealous. 
Title: Re: Mensa
Post by: sillyperson on August 28, 2007, 10:46:52 AM
"Biker Bill" is a Mensan. You'll likely run into him if you visit any Porcupine functions in NH. He's a native of the state, happy with the liberty-lovers coming in. Gives kickass testimony at the State House. Like with the bill that would have restricted ballots to no more than (some number) of names... he went on a partial tirade, it was very effective. "PLEASE... STOP PROTECTING ME FROM MYSELF!"

I used to think all Mensans were dweebs but Biker Bill is a good guy.
Takes all kinds, I guess.
Title: Re: Mensa
Post by: Bill Brasky on August 29, 2007, 05:43:27 AM
I used to hang with a bunch of them.  My favorite was Ed, not the Ed here who also happens to be pretty bright. 

Ed looked vaguely like Bill Murray in a disheveled way, was a math major at PSU and took quite a bit of acid in his day.  When you partied with him, he would be real casual looking with Berks, a baggy tee, his hip cocked in a slouchy manner and a beer bottle waving around gently at the end of his arm, almost carelessly but never spilled much to my recollection.  He was a very good public orator and held no fear whatsoever in social situations. 

For him and most mathematicians, math is a language.  I never fully grasped its higher studies, but I respect it.  I could flub around in basic algebra because its just logical substitution, but never went into the higher conceptual shit.

He told me once "The more acid I do, the more I understand math"  Thats the same concept as why psychadellic era music is so mind expanded, because the people who are gifted in that craft to begin with are able to capture some of the illusions and recreate them musically to others who have not dreamed of such things. 

His education and desire to be as proficient in his understanding of his craft melted into one core of genius as he dabbled in recreational psychadellics.  He had a mad professor streak in him, too.  Just because he wore Berks and fucked around with trips didn't make him a pure hippy, he was just a crazy slightly evil genius with a wide streak of sarcasm in him. 

Partying with him was fun, because he'd always be on the fringe of being belligerant.  He was freaky smart, and he knew it.  He'd stand there being kinda quiet, throwing in his two cents and just being Ed, with a smirk on his face, pass the shit dude, it isn't a thing you hang onto forever, you know, he'd say.  Eventually someone would drop a big fat turd of a comment, and he would wade hip deep into the middle of the circle and cut the whole conversation to fucking shreds, purely on the fly - total improv but always razor sharp even when amazingly wasted.  He would hang the beer bottle out in space, like a coal miner holding out a kerosene lantern, illuminating the person with it in a slightly accusatory manner, then curling it back in to swig from it, in punctuation of his statement.  It looked like a drunken Dracula being creepy and wrapping his cape around his face and backing away into the fog. 

He was a year ahead of me in school, and towards the end of his college he came around less because thats how life works.  We always had mutual respect, we were friends.  One night we were at a bachelor party he was throwing at his sisters house and all sorts of people were there, strippers fucked on the floor and an angry old dog was scared at all the people in his house and was trying to bite anyone who tried to pet him.  Somewhere in that evening we went and hung on the deck and told war stories while the party raged inside. 

I confided to him that I was a little bored and upset that I'd wasted my chance to go away to college, he was having a great moment in his life in those years, nearly finished with a long complicated educatiuon.  He basically told me that whatever I thought of college, it was not what I envisioned and most of the people you would live, work and party with were assholes and I wasn't missing much.  The experience was the experience and the education was the education.  Don't confuse the two.  He goes Look, man, if you want to become more educated, do it.  But all you need to do is be inventive and creative, and of all the people here, You'd easily top my list of people who are able to build their intellect without going through the bullshit of living elsewhere and existing on pizza and suffering through four years and a huge pile of cash while living like a bum.  I'm paraphrasing, this happened long ago.   Pretty much threw the whole damn thing face down on the ground and took a piss on it, while still respecting it.  Plus giving me little validation in the process. 

So, we made our way back inside eventually and one of the more distinct memories after that was my friend Jim who had just gotten a dishonorable discharge from the Marines bellowing at the top of his lungs "STOP PETTING THE FUCKING DOG, HE JUST WANTS TO WATCH THE FUCKIN' SHOW LIKE THE REST OF US!"

This dude, I had went on a month long road trip with a year or two before that, and in that whole fucking month, he never really mentioned school at all.  I think he was a little down on the whole thing, when a student of ability is bored as a freshman, theres something wrong with the picture.  To go all the way through it and have nothing better to say about it than "Some of the parties were great."  Is a fucking shame.  Looking at the whole big thing under a clinical light, you're paying for that piece of paper, and the geniuses of the world would still find a way to maximize their impact on the planet with or without it, thats the nature of creativity and productivity when matched against mensa people.  To most people their professors or other elder people of knowledge would be considered to be more experienced and thus more advanced in that field of study, the superior of the student in that subject.  To people like Ed, all they are is the equivilant of runway jockeys, using those orange flashlights to wave a jet into takeoff pattern, saying "You now need to go look and study into this direction, at your current level."

Unless, of course, he happened to really respect that one certain professor for some reason. 

--

Is Ed a Mensa?  I'm sure he could get in.  But he would probably laugh in your face and say "Sure, I guess I'll sign up, how much will they pay me?  Oh, nothing?  Haha, I think I'll pass."

The last I heard of him, he was living in a major city doing computer work of some sort, probably writing software or some shit.  He married one of the coolest girls I've ever met in my life, and I knew her very well.  Also a great friend of mine, very pretty and very smart, an all around excellent chick.  They had a kid or two and he abandoned his job and moved back home when his dad got bone cancer and died in his mid-fifties, way too young.  He's probably doing very well by now, that was a while ago. 
Title: Re: Mensa
Post by: sillyperson on August 29, 2007, 01:53:53 PM
When I get home tonight I'm taking a drink for Ed.
Title: Re: Mensa
Post by: Jason Orr on September 02, 2007, 10:26:02 AM
I feel like groups like Mensa place too much emphasis on one's intelligence.  There are plenty of other factors involved that could make a person great.  The only thing Mensa people have in common is their relative IQ score, which really isn't much.  I don't see the point in associating myself with anyone who would think that's significant enough to form the basis of a fraternal organization.  Atheists have more in common, really, and that isn't saying much.  I could probably get into Mensa (though I've never taken an IQ test so this is speculative), but I have no desire to try.
Title: Re: Mensa
Post by: mikehz on September 02, 2007, 11:53:24 AM
Yeah. I've known a few geniuses who did some pretty stupid things. It isn't how much intelligence you have, but how much of what you have that you actually use.

I remember one very high I.Q. guy telling me that he never bothered to read. "I don't read anything I don't have to," he proudly stated. "It's boring. Life is too short."

As that great philosopher Forrest Gump observed, "Stupid is as stupid does."
Title: Re: Mensa
Post by: bonerjoe on September 02, 2007, 12:27:06 PM
I don't read anything I don't have to. I prefer to watch it on TV or listen to it on audio book. It's almost impossible for me to learn something just by reading.
Title: Re: Mensa
Post by: zpippin on September 02, 2007, 02:51:42 PM
I polled a group of Mensans once to see where they stood politically. My thought is that since there is a 98% chance that a politician would have a lower IQ than us we wouldn't want him making decisions on how we live our lives.

It ended up being about 60% liberal and 40% libertarian.
Title: Re: Mensa
Post by: alkanen on September 02, 2007, 05:10:37 PM
Quote from: zpippin on September 02, 2007, 02:51:42 PM
I polled a group of Mensans once to see where they stood politically. My thought is that since there is a 98% chance that a politician would have a lower IQ than us we wouldn't want him making decisions on how we live our lives.

It ended up being about 60% liberal and 40% libertarian.

Ahh, but you see, the fine folks at Mensa understand that politicians need to lead the sheeple, since they're obviously so goddamned stupid =)
Title: Re: Mensa
Post by: mikehz on September 02, 2007, 07:36:54 PM
One of the objections I've heard to libertarianism is that it takes too much brain power to understand.
Title: Re: Mensa
Post by: Andy on September 02, 2007, 10:26:16 PM
Quote from: mikehz on September 02, 2007, 07:36:54 PM
One of the objections I've heard to libertarianism is that it takes too much brain power to understand.

Could be true but its no harder to understand than any of the other "ideologies" out there. My guess is that most people who subscribe to anything else don't really understand their own ideology. This would apply to libertarians as well except that some of the counter intuitive stuff means that people have to think about it a little more before actually becoming libertarians.
Title: Re: Mensa
Post by: AlexLibman on September 03, 2007, 06:44:31 AM
Quote from: mikehz on September 02, 2007, 07:36:54 PM
One of the objections I've heard to libertarianism is that it takes too much brain power to understand.

Only because it goes against government-controlled education that almost everyone has been subjected to since early childhood.  There is a certain natural individualism in man that, if left unmolested, would lead a lot more people to strive to raise themselves above the mob, to take responsibility for their own lives, to put barriers on them on their own terms, to demand individual dignity and, by extension, individual freedom.

Smarts have nothing to do with it.  The libertarian philosophy requires, more than anything else, a certain inner stubbornness, a sense that life is too precious, too important to waste on keeping up with the herd.  Your ideal libertarian third-grader isn't the straight-A's student, it's the C student who never misses an opportunity to cut school and to seize the day on one's own terms, and you just know that thirty years from now the straight-A's student will be calling him "boss"!