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Mark is a Nihilist, What are you? (Only vote AFTER taking the 36 Question Quiz)

Existentialism
Kantianism
Strong Egoism
Hedonism
Utilitarianism
Justice
Nihilism
Apathy
Divine Command

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Author Topic: Mark is a Nihilist, What are you?  (Read 40415 times)

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Rillion

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Re: Mark is a Nihilist, What are you?
« Reply #75 on: November 03, 2006, 11:48:11 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_agnosticism

Strong agnosticism, then, equates to weak atheism.  If you assert that we can't know whether or not there is a god, then you do not believe in a god and therefore are a weak atheist. 
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zebraflood

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Re: Mark is a Nihilist, What are you?
« Reply #76 on: November 03, 2006, 11:59:01 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_agnosticism

Strong agnosticism, then, equates to weak atheism.  If you assert that we can't know whether or not there is a god, then you do not believe in a god and therefore are a weak atheist. 

Well, you can be a theistic agnostic too. I think I've bitched and moaned about this distinction on this board before. Agnosticism is a subordinate category of either atheism or theism, and cannot stand by itself as a middle category. People often seem to think that agnosticism exempts them from being either one, and thus leaves them guiltless somehow because they haven't made any positive assertions, which isn't really true. 
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Johnson

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Re: Mark is a Nihilist, What are you?
« Reply #77 on: November 03, 2006, 12:48:11 PM »

In my moments of wasting time pondering the meaning of the universe... I lean towards pantheism, or more specifically determinism, which is a branch of naturalistic pantheism.

However, that's only really when I ponder that, IF I were to decide to adopt a belief... That MIGHT be likely to be it. However, since I have no knowledge, God could in fact be Jesus. That notion however, seems entirely like the most unlikely and childishly stupid option though, as an explantion of a God. I think any sort of explaining god or gods as a deity is sort of childish, but since I really have no idea, the fact that I even lean towards that opinion is just a silly belief. 
« Last Edit: November 03, 2006, 12:53:57 PM by Johnson »
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"In silent resignation, one must never submit to them voluntarily, and even if one is imprisoned in some ghastly dictatorship's jail, where no action is possible - serenity comes from the knowledge that one does NOT accept it. To deal with men by force, is as impractical as to deal with nature by persuasion... Which is the policy of savages who rule men by force, and who plead with nature by prayers, incantations and bribes (sacrifies)." - Ayn Rand

Peppermint Pig

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Re: Mark is a Nihilist, What are you?
« Reply #78 on: November 03, 2006, 01:12:42 PM »

My beliefs of the universe contradict my Libertarian sensibilities: I'm a panpsychic agnostic: Everything is conscious, but subjective experience causes me to apply value judgements to that which I objectify, but I don't know if/what is the divine in the equation.
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Rillion

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Re: Mark is a Nihilist, What are you?
« Reply #79 on: November 04, 2006, 05:22:52 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_agnosticism

Strong agnosticism, then, equates to weak atheism.  If you assert that we can't know whether or not there is a god, then you do not believe in a god and therefore are a weak atheist. 

Well, you can be a theistic agnostic too. I think I've bitched and moaned about this distinction on this board before. Agnosticism is a subordinate category of either atheism or theism, and cannot stand by itself as a middle category. People often seem to think that agnosticism exempts them from being either one, and thus leaves them guiltless somehow because they haven't made any positive assertions, which isn't really true. 

You're absolutely right-- thanks for mentioning that.
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Rillion

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Re: Mark is a Nihilist, What are you?
« Reply #80 on: November 04, 2006, 05:45:14 AM »

In my moments of wasting time pondering the meaning of the universe... I lean towards pantheism, or more specifically determinism, which is a branch of naturalistic pantheism.

Not really.  Determinism is a philosophical belief about the causes of events in the course of time (that is, that events are part of an unbroken chain which is inevitable and therefore predictable, if you have sufficient knowledge).  It makes no comment on the existence of gods or transcendent reality.  A person can be a determinist theist, or a determinist atheist.  It's not a "branch" of any particular position regarding the existence of gods. 

Naturalistic pantheism is, in my opinion, a contradiction in terms.  It appears to entail some gobbledygook about viewing the universe in a mystical manner, but "theism" means "belief in god(s)."  "Pantheism" means "belief that the universe is god," and "Naturalism" means "excluding the possibility of the supernatural, including gods." I see that the Wikipedia article you cite points this out, and the only response offered is basically that pantheism isn't really a kind of theism....in which case, the word "pantheism" is a misnomer and should be discarded.  You can feel awe and reverance for the universe without deifying it (see Richard Dawkins for a stellar example), and thereby sidestep this whole mess about supernatural agents which can't be tested anyhow and therefore aren't scientifically tenable. 
« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 05:51:48 AM by Rillion »
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Johnson

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Re: Mark is a Nihilist, What are you?
« Reply #81 on: November 05, 2006, 03:38:53 PM »

In my moments of wasting time pondering the meaning of the universe... I lean towards pantheism, or more specifically determinism, which is a branch of naturalistic pantheism.
Not really.  Determinism is a philosophical belief about the causes of events in the course of time (that is, that events are part of an unbroken chain which is inevitable and therefore predictable, if you have sufficient knowledge).  It makes no comment on the existence of gods or transcendent reality.  A person can be a determinist theist, or a determinist atheist.  It's not a "branch" of any particular position regarding the existence of gods. 

What is the original cause? If you believe in a CAUSE for EVERYTHING, you believe in an original cause.

Naturalistic pantheism is, in my opinion, a contradiction in terms.  It appears to entail some gobbledygook about viewing the universe in a mystical manner, but "theism" means "belief in god(s)."  "Pantheism" means "belief that the universe is god," and "Naturalism" means "excluding the possibility of the supernatural, including gods."

Something being naturalistic does not mean that it needs to follow 100% of the tenets of naturalism.

Where does matter come from? How did gravity begin? Why does gravity work the way it does? What about Energy? How did light and heat come about? Why did the PROCESS of Evolution lead to intelligent creatures that can ask this question, and yet also understand the principles of irony?
Why does the CONCEPT of destiny exist? The concept of emotions?
Is there something that is beyond intelligence?

I see that the Wikipedia article you cite points this out, and the only response offered is basically that pantheism isn't really a kind of theism....in which case, the word "pantheism" is a misnomer and should be discarded.  You can feel awe and reverance for the universe without deifying it (see Richard Dawkins for a stellar example), and thereby sidestep this whole mess about supernatural agents which can't be tested anyhow and therefore aren't scientifically tenable. 

DEITY:
3 : one exalted or revered as supremely good or powerful     

It is in these sorts of questions, and in humilty to realize that even Einstein was religious, (much moreso than I could ever be) and in that I find myself an Agnostic. I find belief, and disbelief to be an active waste of time. For, if I were to believe in a force of creation, that entity would be all powerful, and would be able to create all of the above... Would be able to directly plan the meager destiny of any individual. There would be NO physical form for any "deity" in which I would believe in. It simply would be... a force... it would BE existance. The rules of TIME and SPACE defined through living within an intelligence beyond intelligence. Beyond the concept of knowledge.  To a non-being like this, everything is insignifigant. Humanity, Earth, the Universe... Worshipping it would be frivolous. Asking for favors would fall upon "deaf ears". It would be akin to trying use the mere force of your will to request that somehow destiny and karma go the way you want.

So, basically, I believe that if a deity(s) does exist, that we are so impossibly insignifigant to it, that our belief or unbelief in it's existance does not matter.  That our existence to IT does not matter. Yet at the same time that the possibility of the existence of scuh a deity is so unlikely and impossible, an improvable, that to spend time believing in such a thing is to lose focus on the world around you, and to be completely and insanely out of touch with priorities. 


http://www.rational-church.com/fallacies.htm
« Last Edit: November 05, 2006, 03:44:27 PM by Johnson »
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"In silent resignation, one must never submit to them voluntarily, and even if one is imprisoned in some ghastly dictatorship's jail, where no action is possible - serenity comes from the knowledge that one does NOT accept it. To deal with men by force, is as impractical as to deal with nature by persuasion... Which is the policy of savages who rule men by force, and who plead with nature by prayers, incantations and bribes (sacrifies)." - Ayn Rand

Brent

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Re: Mark is a Nihilist, What are you?
« Reply #82 on: November 05, 2006, 06:52:49 PM »

You scored as Existentialism.     

Your life is guided by the concept of Existentialism: You choose the meaning and purpose of your life.

Man is condemned to be free; because once thrown into the world, he is responsible for everything he does.
It is up to you to give [life] a meaning.
--Jean-Paul Sartre

It is man's natural sickness to believe that he possesses the Truth.
--Blaise Pascal


Hedonism 90%

Existentialism 90%

Strong Egoism 70%

Nihilism 60%

Justice (Fairness) 50%

Kantianism 45%

Utilitarianism 40%

Apathy 25%

Divine Command 10%
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ladyattis

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Re: Mark is a Nihilist, What are you?
« Reply #83 on: November 05, 2006, 07:24:20 PM »

Causality does not imply determinism. 6_6 *ducks*

-- Bridget
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Rillion

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Re: Mark is a Nihilist, What are you?
« Reply #84 on: November 06, 2006, 08:52:46 AM »

What is the original cause? If you believe in a CAUSE for EVERYTHING, you believe in an original cause.

Even if that's true, who says the cause has to be God?  You're taking what you view to be the logical extension of a philosophical position and conflating it with another.  That's bad to do, because it misrepresents people who actually take that philosophical position but don't agree with you on its logical extension.

Quote
Something being naturalistic does not mean that it needs to follow 100% of the tenets of naturalism.

That's what "naturalistic" means.  Naturalism just has one tenet, which is basically that supernatural phenomena are either non-existant or unknowable.  So you can't say "I'm a naturalist except for this one area where I believe in the supernatural."

Quote
Where does matter come from? How did gravity begin? Why does gravity work the way it does? What about Energy? How did light and heat come about? Why did the PROCESS of Evolution lead to intelligent creatures that can ask this question, and yet also understand the principles of irony?
Why does the CONCEPT of destiny exist? The concept of emotions?
Is there something that is beyond intelligence?

Argument from incredulity.  Not to mention, what does it mean to be "beyond intelligence"?

Quote
DEITY:
3 : one exalted or revered as supremely good or powerful

By that definition, George Bush is a deity because he is revered as such by some people.  By weakening the definition so much, it effectively becomes useless. 

Quote
It is in these sorts of questions, and in humilty to realize that even Einstein was religious, (much moreso than I could ever be)

Argument from authority (and also pretty insulting to those who don't share your views-- that doesn't make them less hunble).  Who says Einstein, intelligent as he was, had to be right about everything? 

Quote
and in that I find myself an Agnostic. I find belief, and disbelief to be an active waste of time.

Atheism doesn't have to be disbelief or denial.  It can easily just be lack of belief.  That's what the word literally means: not theism.  You don't have to be a "naturalistic pantheist" to simply say "I don't see any reason to believe in something that could properly be called God"...and indeed, having the word "theist" anywhere in your title in the first place logically prevents you from saying that. 
« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 09:17:37 AM by Rillion »
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rollins100

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Re: Mark is a Nihilist, What are you?
« Reply #85 on: November 08, 2006, 10:09:49 AM »

You scored as Existentialism.     



Your life is guided by the concept of Existentialism: You choose the meaning and purpose of your life.

Man is condemned to be free; because once thrown into the world, he is responsible for everything he does.
It is up to you to give [life] a meaning.
--Jean-Paul Sartre

It is man's natural sickness to believe that he possesses the Truth.
--Blaise Pascal

More info at Arocoun's Wikipedia User Page...

Existentialism   95%
Hedonism   90%
Strong Egoism   75%
Kantianism   60%
Justice (Fairness)   60%
Utilitarianism   25%
Nihilism   25%
Apathy   5%
Divine Command   0%

Thank God I scored 0% on Divine Command.   :lol:
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Johnson

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Re: Mark is a Nihilist, What are you?
« Reply #86 on: November 08, 2006, 07:03:58 PM »

Atheism doesn't have to be disbelief or denial.  It can easily just be lack of belief.  That's what the word literally means: not theism.  You don't have to be a "naturalistic pantheist" to simply say "I don't see any reason to believe in something that could properly be called God"...and indeed, having the word "theist" anywhere in your title in the first place logically prevents you from saying that. 

Please present to me another instance of where one is presented an idea and magically does not form a belief.

When presented with the Idea of a GOD -
You either
a. Believe in the idea.
b. disbelieve the idea
c. claim to not have enough knowledge.

Your option of simply lacking belief can only exist in someone who has never even heard the concept of a god. If a person knows the word Atheist, then they have heard of the respective concepts.

Atheism as you decribe it does not exist. What you are decribing is Agnosticism. People who say "I don't know". I'm sorry if you feel it's a dirty word and that people make fun of you for being on the fence. I for one, am proud to say "I don't know", it makes me feel like I am being way more honest than the high number of atheists who are actually agnostics. Those that merely CALL themselves Atheists to piss off Christians.

If a person knows of the word Atheist, then they either actively believe god does not exist (Strong Atheism) or they are weak atheists who are actually agnostics. Allbeit they may be STRONG agnostics such as myself... but they are agnostics nonetheless.


BTW

atheism
One entry found for atheism.
Main Entry: athe·ism
Pronunciation: 'A-thE-"i-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos god
1 archaic : UNGODLINESS, WICKEDNESS
2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity

theism
One entry found for theism.
Main Entry: the·ism
Pronunciation: 'thE-"i-z&m
Function: noun
: belief in the existence of a god or gods; specifically : belief in the existence of one God viewed as the creative source of the human race and the world who transcends yet is immanent in the world
- the·ist /-ist/ noun or adjective
- the·is·tic /thE-'is-tik/ also the·is·ti·cal /-ti-k&l/ adjective
- the·is·ti·cal·ly /-ti-k(&-)lE/ adverb
 

If you have been presented with theistic beliefs, and actively REJECTED them, then there is a reason for you to do so. That reason is likely that you lack evidence, or KNOWLEDGE. 

Main Entry: 1ag·nos·tic
Pronunciation: ag-'näs-tik, &g-
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek agnOstos unknown, unknowable, from a- + gnOstos known, from gignOskein to know -- more at KNOW
1 : a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
2 : a person unwilling to commit to an opinion about something <political agnostics>
- ag·nos·ti·cism /-t&-"si-z&m/ noun    
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"In silent resignation, one must never submit to them voluntarily, and even if one is imprisoned in some ghastly dictatorship's jail, where no action is possible - serenity comes from the knowledge that one does NOT accept it. To deal with men by force, is as impractical as to deal with nature by persuasion... Which is the policy of savages who rule men by force, and who plead with nature by prayers, incantations and bribes (sacrifies)." - Ayn Rand

Ecolitan

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Re: Mark is a Nihilist, What are you?
« Reply #87 on: November 09, 2006, 01:11:53 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_agnosticism

Strong agnosticism, then, equates to weak atheism.  If you assert that we can't know whether or not there is a god, then you do not believe in a god and therefore are a weak atheist. 

That's retarded.  This is a perfect illustration of how the word atheist got all fucked up.   Strong agnostics are exactly that....agnostic.  If you think that makes them atheists than that's because your totally unaware that atheism is supposed to mean an affirmative belief in the non-existence of god.  Atheists started backpeddling on that when they realized that would make atheism a religion.  So guess what all you atheists out there who do not have an affirmative belief in the non-existence of god.....  You're agnostic.
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Johnson

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Re: Mark is a Nihilist, What are you?
« Reply #88 on: November 09, 2006, 01:22:56 AM »

I see the scale of secularism slides like so

1. STRONG ATHEIST

2. WEAK ATHEIST
2. STRONG AGNOSTIC

3. WEAK AGNOSTIC

4. AGNOSTIC THEIST
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"In silent resignation, one must never submit to them voluntarily, and even if one is imprisoned in some ghastly dictatorship's jail, where no action is possible - serenity comes from the knowledge that one does NOT accept it. To deal with men by force, is as impractical as to deal with nature by persuasion... Which is the policy of savages who rule men by force, and who plead with nature by prayers, incantations and bribes (sacrifies)." - Ayn Rand

Ecolitan

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Re: Mark is a Nihilist, What are you?
« Reply #89 on: November 09, 2006, 01:36:12 AM »

I see the scale of secularism slides like so

1. STRONG ATHEIST

2. WEAK ATHEIST
2. STRONG AGNOSTIC

3. WEAK AGNOSTIC

4. AGNOSTIC THEIST


Wikipedia can say whatever it wants....  Doesn't change the fact that atheist used to mean an affirmative belief in the non-existence of god and somewhere along the line people got it all fucked up and now many agnostics call themselves atheists because somewhere along the line they got called out about not being able to prove a negative but didn't want to lose their atheist badge so they changed the meaning of the word.
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