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Free Talk Live => The Polling Pit => Topic started by: Level 20 Anklebiter on August 05, 2008, 08:26:36 PM

Title: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Level 20 Anklebiter on August 05, 2008, 08:26:36 PM
I thought this would be a nice game to play with respect to what we know and especially what we don't about the future. :) If you can come up with more options please offer them.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: BonerJoe on August 05, 2008, 08:33:10 PM
I picked the two obvious ones.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Taors on August 05, 2008, 08:40:43 PM
I don't hold the belief that 2012 is an 'end date' for the planet, or anything like that. I think that 2012 will be a year of Complete Novelty, as explained in McKenna's Timewave Zero. Technology and novelty will be produced at such an epic rate, that the Singularity will spawn out of it and result in a global shift in consciousness and awareness - the way we smell, touch, hear, taste, and see. I think we're on the cusp of something fantastic. I can't wait to see the day, if I'm able.

Of course, it always gets worse before it gets better.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: trollfreezone on August 05, 2008, 10:22:45 PM
I chose "alternative explanation I wish to present."

Violent revolution, followed by a newly-instituted U.N.-installed democratic socialist republic, followed by one world government of a similar nature.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: BonerJoe on August 05, 2008, 10:23:40 PM
I don't hold the belief that 2012 is an 'end date' for the planet, or anything like that. I think that 2012 will be a year of Complete Novelty, as explained in McKenna's Timewave Zero. Technology and novelty will be produced at such an epic rate, that the Singularity will spawn out of it and result in a global shift in consciousness and awareness - the way we smell, touch, hear, taste, and see. I think we're on the cusp of something fantastic. I can't wait to see the day, if I'm able.

Of course, it always gets worse before it gets better.

Oh stop already.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Level 20 Anklebiter on August 05, 2008, 10:42:12 PM
I chose Clash of Fates and Technological Singularity. My reasoning is as follows: several significant discoveries in the natural sciences have happened in particular advancements in neurology and the  other life sciences. On top of that, two major social trends are indeed forming: ours and the neo-collectivists. This sets up a significant precedent not seen probably in thousands of years of recorded history (think real early Mesopotamia history...), so this won't be some easy clash either. I suspect at least one major change will happen: a new 'human' species will evolve due to whatever political, economic, and scientific wrangling that occurs. This species will decide the ultimate fate of itself and our current species. What I do see in the Pattern for this key event is that everything we know today will not exist as it does now. I do mean it, too. It will happen here in the United States only because the elements for social, scientific, and economic changes seem to be converging here for whatever reason. I suspect there are other forces at work, but nothing like what the conspiratards think. Personally, I think it's simply other folks like myself who can see the Pattern as well, but have their own designs for its shaping. They can't be happy with letting it unfold as it will, they wish to be gods, that's all I can guess so far. 
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Taors on August 05, 2008, 10:51:44 PM
I don't hold the belief that 2012 is an 'end date' for the planet, or anything like that. I think that 2012 will be a year of Complete Novelty, as explained in McKenna's Timewave Zero. Technology and novelty will be produced at such an epic rate, that the Singularity will spawn out of it and result in a global shift in consciousness and awareness - the way we smell, touch, hear, taste, and see. I think we're on the cusp of something fantastic. I can't wait to see the day, if I'm able.

Of course, it always gets worse before it gets better.

Oh stop already.

Never.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: BonerJoe on August 05, 2008, 10:52:33 PM
If the singularity happens, I hope someone destroys it. It can only lead to enslavement.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Level 20 Anklebiter on August 05, 2008, 11:05:12 PM
If the singularity happens, I hope someone destroys it. It can only lead to enslavement.

Or evolution.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Taors on August 05, 2008, 11:19:29 PM
If the singularity happens, I hope someone destroys it. It can only lead to enslavement.

It depends on what you mean by Singularity.

Am I talking about super-advanced AI that can program itself?

Hardly. Look the word up.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: BonerJoe on August 05, 2008, 11:25:24 PM
If the singularity happens, I hope someone destroys it. It can only lead to enslavement.

Or evolution.

If you think that machines can somehow possess the same qualities as a human brain, then why is it improbable to think that as with humans if it can attain controlling power that it won't?
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Taors on August 05, 2008, 11:28:47 PM
If the singularity happens, I hope someone destroys it. It can only lead to enslavement.

Or evolution.

If you think that machines can somehow possess the same qualities as a human brain, then why is it improbable to think that as with humans if it can attain controlling power that it won't?

It will, and that's why we must impede progress on such an abomination of God.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: blackie on August 05, 2008, 11:29:12 PM
Quote
First let us postulate that the computer scientists succeed in developing intelligent machines that can do all things better that human beings can do them. In that case presumably all work will be done by vast, highly organized systems of machines and no human effort will be necessary. Either of two cases might occur. The machines might be permitted to make all of their own decisions without human oversight, or else human control over the machines might be retained.

173. If the machines are permitted to make all their own decisions, we can't make any conjectures as to the results, because it is impossible to guess how such machines might behave. We only point out that the fate of the human race would be at the mercy of the machines. It might be argued that the human race would never be foolish enough to hand over all the power to the machines. But we are suggesting neither that the human race would voluntarily turn power over to the machines nor that the machines would willfully seize power. What we do suggest is that the human race might easily permit itself to drift into a position of such dependence on the machines that it would have no practical choice but to accept all of the machines decisions. As society and the problems that face it become more and more complex and machines become more and more intelligent, people will let machines make more of their decision for them, simply because machine-made decisions will bring better result than man-made ones. Eventually a stage may be reached at which the decisions necessary to keep the system running will be so complex that human beings will be incapable of making them intelligently. At that stage the machines will be in effective control. People won't be able to just turn the machines off, because they will be so dependent on them that turning them off would amount to suicide.

174. On the other hand it is possible that human control over the machines may be retained. In that case the average man may have control over certain private machines of his own, such as his car of his personal computer, but control over large systems of machines will be in the hands of a tiny elite -- just as it is today, but with two difference. Due to improved techniques the elite will have greater control over the masses; and because human work will no longer be necessary the masses will be superfluous, a useless burden on the system. If the elite is ruthless the may simply decide to exterminate the mass of humanity. If they are humane they may use propaganda or other psychological or biological techniques to reduce the birth rate until the mass of humanity becomes extinct, leaving the world to the elite. Or, if the elite consist of soft-hearted liberals, they may decide to play the role of good shepherds to the rest of the human race. They will see to it that everyone's physical needs are satisfied, that all children are raised under psychologically hygienic conditions, that everyone has a wholesome hobby to keep him busy, and that anyone who may become dissatisfied undergoes "treatment" to cure his "problem." Of course, life will be so purposeless that people will have to be biologically or psychologically engineered either to remove their need for the power process or to make them "sublimate" their drive for power into some harmless hobby. These engineered human beings may be happy in such a society, but they most certainly will not be free. They will have been reduced to the status of domestic animals.

175. But suppose now that the computer scientists do not succeed in developing artificial intelligence, so that human work remains necessary. Even so, machines will take care of more and more of the simpler tasks so that there will be an increasing surplus of human workers at the lower levels of ability. (We see this happening already. There are many people who find it difficult or impossible to get work, because for intellectual or psychological reasons they cannot acquire the level of training necessary to make themselves useful in the present system.) On those who are employed, ever-increasing demands will be placed; They will need more and m ore training, more and more ability, and will have to be ever more reliable, conforming and docile, because they will be more and more like cells of a giant organism. Their tasks will be increasingly specialized so that their work will be, in a sense, out of touch with the real world, being concentrated on one tiny slice of reality. The system will have to use any means that I can, whether psychological or biological, to engineer people to be docile, to have the abilities that the system requires and to "sublimate" their drive for power into some specialized task. But the statement that the people of such a society will have to be docile may require qualification. The society may find competitiveness useful, provided that ways are found of directing competitiveness into channels that serve that needs of the system. We can imagine into channels that serve the needs of the system. We can imagine a future society in which there is endless competition for positions of prestige an power. But no more than a very few people will ever reach the top, where the only real power is (see end of paragraph 163). Very repellent is a society in which a person can satisfy his needs for power only by pushing large numbers of other people out of the way and depriving them of THEIR opportunity for power.

176. Once can envision scenarios that incorporate aspects of more than one of the possibilities that we have just discussed. For instance, it may be that machines will take over most of the work that is of real, practical importance, but that human beings will be kept busy by being given relatively unimportant work. It has been suggested, for example, that a great development of the service of industries might provide work for human beings. Thus people will would spend their time shinning each others shoes, driving each other around inn taxicab, making handicrafts for one another, waiting on each other's tables, etc. This seems to us a thoroughly contemptible way for the human race to end up, and we doubt that many people would find fulfilling lives in such pointless busy-work. They would seek other, dangerous outlets (drugs, , crime, "cults," hate groups) unless they were biological or psychologically engineered to adapt them to such a way of life.

177. Needless to day, the scenarios outlined above do not exhaust all the possibilities. They only indicate the kinds of outcomes that seem to us mots likely. But wee can envision no plausible scenarios that are any more palatable that the ones we've just described. It is overwhelmingly probable that if the industrial-technological system survives the next 40 to 100 years, it will by that time have developed certain general characteristics: Individuals (at least those of the "bourgeois" type, who are integrated into the system and make it run, and who therefore have all the power) will be more dependent than ever on large organizations; they will be more "socialized" that ever and their physical and mental qualities to a significant extent (possibly to a very great extent ) will be those that are engineered into them rather than being the results of chance (or of God's will, or whatever); and whatever may be left of wild nature will be reduced to remnants preserved for scientific study and kept under the supervision and management of scientists (hence it will no longer be truly wild). In the long run (say a few centuries from now) it is it is likely that neither the human race nor any other important organisms will exist as we know them today, because once you start modifying organisms through genetic engineering there is no reason to stop at any particular point, so that the modifications will probably continue until man and other organisms have been utterly transformed.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: BonerJoe on August 05, 2008, 11:32:30 PM
Sometimes I think that manifesto will be seen as the new Bible in 1000 years.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: trollfreezone on August 05, 2008, 11:35:01 PM
First let us postulate that the computer scientists succeed in developing intelligent machines that can do all things better that human beings can do them. In that case presumably all work will be done by vast, highly organized systems of machines and no human effort will be necessary. Either of two cases might occur. The machines might be permitted to make all of their own decisions without human oversight, or else human control over the machines might be retained.

173. If the machines are permitted to make all their own decisions, we can't make any conjectures as to the results, because it is impossible to guess how such machines might behave. We only point out that the fate of the human race would be at the mercy of the machines. It might be argued that the human race would never be foolish enough to hand over all the power to the machines. But we are suggesting neither that the human race would voluntarily turn power over to the machines nor that the machines would willfully seize power. What we do suggest is that the human race might easily permit itself to drift into a position of such dependence on the machines that it would have no practical choice but to accept all of the machines decisions. As society and the problems that face it become more and more complex and machines become more and more intelligent, people will let machines make more of their decision for them, simply because machine-made decisions will bring better result than man-made ones. Eventually a stage may be reached at which the decisions necessary to keep the system running will be so complex that human beings will be incapable of making them intelligently. At that stage the machines will be in effective control. People won't be able to just turn the machines off, because they will be so dependent on them that turning them off would amount to suicide.

174. On the other hand it is possible that human control over the machines may be retained. In that case the average man may have control over certain private machines of his own, such as his car of his personal computer, but control over large systems of machines will be in the hands of a tiny elite -- just as it is today, but with two difference. Due to improved techniques the elite will have greater control over the masses; and because human work will no longer be necessary the masses will be superfluous, a useless burden on the system. If the elite is ruthless the may simply decide to exterminate the mass of humanity. If they are humane they may use propaganda or other psychological or biological techniques to reduce the birth rate until the mass of humanity becomes extinct, leaving the world to the elite. Or, if the elite consist of soft-hearted liberals, they may decide to play the role of good shepherds to the rest of the human race. They will see to it that everyone's physical needs are satisfied, that all children are raised under psychologically hygienic conditions, that everyone has a wholesome hobby to keep him busy, and that anyone who may become dissatisfied undergoes "treatment" to cure his "problem." Of course, life will be so purposeless that people will have to be biologically or psychologically engineered either to remove their need for the power process or to make them "sublimate" their drive for power into some harmless hobby. These engineered human beings may be happy in such a society, but they most certainly will not be free. They will have been reduced to the status of domestic animals.

175. But suppose now that the computer scientists do not succeed in developing artificial intelligence, so that human work remains necessary. Even so, machines will take care of more and more of the simpler tasks so that there will be an increasing surplus of human workers at the lower levels of ability. (We see this happening already. There are many people who find it difficult or impossible to get work, because for intellectual or psychological reasons they cannot acquire the level of training necessary to make themselves useful in the present system.) On those who are employed, ever-increasing demands will be placed; They will need more and m ore training, more and more ability, and will have to be ever more reliable, conforming and docile, because they will be more and more like cells of a giant organism. Their tasks will be increasingly specialized so that their work will be, in a sense, out of touch with the real world, being concentrated on one tiny slice of reality. The system will have to use any means that I can, whether psychological or biological, to engineer people to be docile, to have the abilities that the system requires and to "sublimate" their drive for power into some specialized task. But the statement that the people of such a society will have to be docile may require qualification. The society may find competitiveness useful, provided that ways are found of directing competitiveness into channels that serve that needs of the system. We can imagine into channels that serve the needs of the system. We can imagine a future society in which there is endless competition for positions of prestige an power. But no more than a very few people will ever reach the top, where the only real power is (see end of paragraph 163). Very repellent is a society in which a person can satisfy his needs for power only by pushing large numbers of other people out of the way and depriving them of THEIR opportunity for power.

176. Once can envision scenarios that incorporate aspects of more than one of the possibilities that we have just discussed. For instance, it may be that machines will take over most of the work that is of real, practical importance, but that human beings will be kept busy by being given relatively unimportant work. It has been suggested, for example, that a great development of the service of industries might provide work for human beings. Thus people will would spend their time shinning each others shoes, driving each other around inn taxicab, making handicrafts for one another, waiting on each other's tables, etc. This seems to us a thoroughly contemptible way for the human race to end up, and we doubt that many people would find fulfilling lives in such pointless busy-work. They would seek other, dangerous outlets (drugs, , crime, "cults," hate groups) unless they were biological or psychologically engineered to adapt them to such a way of life.

177. Needless to day, the scenarios outlined above do not exhaust all the possibilities. They only indicate the kinds of outcomes that seem to us mots likely. But wee can envision no plausible scenarios that are any more palatable that the ones we've just described. It is overwhelmingly probable that if the industrial-technological system survives the next 40 to 100 years, it will by that time have developed certain general characteristics: Individuals (at least those of the "bourgeois" type, who are integrated into the system and make it run, and who therefore have all the power) will be more dependent than ever on large organizations; they will be more "socialized" that ever and their physical and mental qualities to a significant extent (possibly to a very great extent ) will be those that are engineered into them rather than being the results of chance (or of God's will, or whatever); and whatever may be left of wild nature will be reduced to remnants preserved for scientific study and kept under the supervision and management of scientists (hence it will no longer be truly wild). In the long run (say a few centuries from now) it is it is likely that neither the human race nor any other important organisms will exist as we know them today, because once you start modifying organisms through genetic engineering there is no reason to stop at any particular point, so that the modifications will probably continue until man and other organisms have been utterly transformed.

tl;dr
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: YixilTesiphon on August 05, 2008, 11:35:30 PM
It takes a bit of a logical leap when it claims that "the system" will engineer people directly.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: blackie on August 05, 2008, 11:43:30 PM
You need to read the first 172 paragraphs.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Level 20 Anklebiter on August 05, 2008, 11:57:40 PM
If you think that machines can somehow possess the same qualities as a human brain, then why is it improbable to think that as with humans if it can attain controlling power that it won't?

That's assuming it will be a singular consciousness alone. Plus, even in the worse case situation such a consciousness will not be all powerful. Smash a few turbines or transformers in key locations across the world and you can black out 2/3's of the world's power grids. It doesn't take lasers or plasma rifles to fuck up a turbine either.

And you haven't given me a real motive as to why such a consciousness would need to attack or lash out. At worse, I believe it will act more like a teenager than a mass murderer (Honestly, I can't say which is worse sometimes...).
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: BonerJoe on August 06, 2008, 12:03:52 AM
If you think that machines can somehow possess the same qualities as a human brain, then why is it improbable to think that as with humans if it can attain controlling power that it won't?

That's assuming it will be a singular consciousness alone. Plus, even in the worse case situation such a consciousness will not be all powerful. Smash a few turbines or transformers in key locations across the world and you can black out 2/3's of the world's power grids. It doesn't take lasers or plasma rifles to fuck up a turbine either.

And you haven't given me a real motive as to why such a consciousness would need to attack or lash out. At worse, I believe it will act more like a teenager than a mass murderer (Honestly, I can't say which is worse sometimes...).

You are misguided, and I consider anyone working towards such a goal to be initiating force.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Taors on August 06, 2008, 12:22:19 AM
If you think that machines can somehow possess the same qualities as a human brain, then why is it improbable to think that as with humans if it can attain controlling power that it won't?

That's assuming it will be a singular consciousness alone. Plus, even in the worse case situation such a consciousness will not be all powerful. Smash a few turbines or transformers in key locations across the world and you can black out 2/3's of the world's power grids. It doesn't take lasers or plasma rifles to fuck up a turbine either.

And you haven't given me a real motive as to why such a consciousness would need to attack or lash out. At worse, I believe it will act more like a teenager than a mass murderer (Honestly, I can't say which is worse sometimes...).

You are misguided, and I consider anyone working towards such a goal to be initiating force.

We need to destroy all the work she's done so far.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Level 20 Anklebiter on August 06, 2008, 07:28:47 AM
If you think that machines can somehow possess the same qualities as a human brain, then why is it improbable to think that as with humans if it can attain controlling power that it won't?

That's assuming it will be a singular consciousness alone. Plus, even in the worse case situation such a consciousness will not be all powerful. Smash a few turbines or transformers in key locations across the world and you can black out 2/3's of the world's power grids. It doesn't take lasers or plasma rifles to fuck up a turbine either.

And you haven't given me a real motive as to why such a consciousness would need to attack or lash out. At worse, I believe it will act more like a teenager than a mass murderer (Honestly, I can't say which is worse sometimes...).

You are misguided, and I consider anyone working towards such a goal to be initiating force.

No, you're misguided as you want to disrupt the Pattern.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: John Shaw on August 06, 2008, 10:08:16 AM
I predict - Same Shit, Different Day.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Level 20 Anklebiter on August 06, 2008, 10:09:54 AM
I predict - Same Shit, Different Day.

Pretty much correct, but I think the shit is going to be shinier with glowing buttons too. :3
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith) on August 06, 2008, 05:42:36 PM
Quote
Continuation of moral and economical liberties for individuals and groups, leading to a worldwide economic decline.

I don't get this one.  Seems contradictory.  I'm confused.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Level 20 Anklebiter on August 06, 2008, 07:02:35 PM
Quote
Continuation of moral and economical liberties for individuals and groups, leading to a worldwide economic decline.

I don't get this one.  Seems contradictory.  I'm confused.

Ditto. It's mean to be read as Discontinuation. Or continued decline of. Btw, I can't seem to find any options to edit the damn poll at all like I use to be able to... Fixed.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Taors on August 06, 2008, 07:16:59 PM
Bridget wants the Singularity to happen so she can make herself a boyfriend.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: BonerJoe on August 06, 2008, 07:39:05 PM
Bridget wants the Singularity to happen so she can make herself a boyfriend.

She wants it so that she can transplant her brain into a replicated human that has been genetically engineered from scratch to be perfect and has a cunt and tits.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Level 20 Anklebiter on August 06, 2008, 07:53:06 PM
Bridget wants the Singularity to happen so she can make herself a boyfriend.

She wants it so that she can transplant her brain into a replicated human that has been genetically engineered from scratch to be perfect and has a cunt and tits.

No...

(http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/3626/trongirlvj1.png)
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: BonerJoe on August 06, 2008, 07:55:47 PM
Bridget wants the Singularity to happen so she can make herself a boyfriend.

She wants it so that she can transplant her brain into a replicated human that has been genetically engineered from scratch to be perfect and has a cunt and tits.

No...

(http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/3626/trongirlvj1.png)

Same difference.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: John Shaw on August 06, 2008, 07:57:01 PM
(http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/3626/trongirlvj1.png)

But that chick got her shit derezzed.

Besides, she never uses her disk.

(http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/09/tron.jpg)
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Level 20 Anklebiter on August 06, 2008, 07:57:27 PM
Bridget wants the Singularity to happen so she can make herself a boyfriend.

She wants it so that she can transplant her brain into a replicated human that has been genetically engineered from scratch to be perfect and has a cunt and tits.

No...

(http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/3626/trongirlvj1.png)

Same difference.

There's no such thing as sex or gender for holodroids.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: BonerJoe on August 06, 2008, 07:58:20 PM
Bridget wants the Singularity to happen so she can make herself a boyfriend.

She wants it so that she can transplant her brain into a replicated human that has been genetically engineered from scratch to be perfect and has a cunt and tits.

No...

(http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/3626/trongirlvj1.png)

Same difference.

There's no such thing as sex or gender for holodroids.

It's kinda weird that you build this whole huge fantasy about being an android 'cause you're afraid to have sex.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: John Shaw on August 06, 2008, 07:58:42 PM
There's no such thing as sex or gender for holodroids.

Then why did she make out wif a user before she got zapped?
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Level 20 Anklebiter on August 06, 2008, 08:03:14 PM
There's no such thing as sex or gender for holodroids.

Then why did she make out wif a user before she got zapped?

*shrugs* I never played the game.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Level 20 Anklebiter on August 06, 2008, 08:03:37 PM
It's kinda weird that you build this whole huge fantasy about being an android 'cause you're afraid to have sex.

No, I just like technology.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: BonerJoe on August 06, 2008, 08:04:05 PM
It's kinda weird that you build this whole huge fantasy about being an android 'cause you're afraid to have sex.

No, I just like technology.

Why?
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Level 20 Anklebiter on August 06, 2008, 08:06:41 PM
It's kinda weird that you build this whole huge fantasy about being an android 'cause you're afraid to have sex.

No, I just like technology.

Why?

Because it's cool.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: BonerJoe on August 06, 2008, 08:08:55 PM
It's kinda weird that you build this whole huge fantasy about being an android 'cause you're afraid to have sex.

No, I just like technology.

Why?

Because it's cool.

Even while it destroys the world?
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Level 20 Anklebiter on August 06, 2008, 08:09:38 PM
It's kinda weird that you build this whole huge fantasy about being an android 'cause you're afraid to have sex.

No, I just like technology.

Why?

Because it's cool.

Even while it destroys the world?

According to what evidence?
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: BonerJoe on August 06, 2008, 08:14:53 PM
It's kinda weird that you build this whole huge fantasy about being an android 'cause you're afraid to have sex.

No, I just like technology.

Why?

Because it's cool.

Even while it destroys the world?

According to what evidence?

The evidence is everywhere.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Level 20 Anklebiter on August 06, 2008, 08:15:49 PM
It's kinda weird that you build this whole huge fantasy about being an android 'cause you're afraid to have sex.

No, I just like technology.

Why?

Because it's cool.

Even while it destroys the world?

According to what evidence?

The evidence is everywhere.

Um no it's not. Technology has increased life expectancies, quality of urban conditions, and etc for humans. So, your argument is invalid. :)
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: blackie on August 06, 2008, 08:17:25 PM
Quote
1. The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. They have greatly increased the life-expectancy of those of us who live in "advanced" countries, but they have destabilized society, have made life unfulfilling, have subjected human beings to indignities, have led to widespread psychological suffering (in the Third World to physical suffering as well) and have inflicted severe damage on the natural world. The continued development of technology will worsen the situation. It will certainly subject human beings to greater indignities and inflict greater damage on the natural world, it will probably lead to greater social disruption and psychological suffering, and it may lead to increased physical suffering even in "advanced" countries.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: BonerJoe on August 06, 2008, 08:21:51 PM
^ that
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Level 20 Anklebiter on August 06, 2008, 08:24:33 PM
Quote
1. The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. They have greatly increased the life-expectancy of those of us who live in "advanced" countries, but they have destabilized society, have made life unfulfilling, have subjected human beings to indignities, have led to widespread psychological suffering (in the Third World to physical suffering as well) and have inflicted severe damage on the natural world. The continued development of technology will worsen the situation. It will certainly subject human beings to greater indignities and inflict greater damage on the natural world, it will probably lead to greater social disruption and psychological suffering, and it may lead to increased physical suffering even in "advanced" countries.

Prove the points in bold because even the most liberal people I know have tons of evidence where technology has actually restored lost forests as they have in the US to pre-1930s levels just to give one example of how technology has restored our habitat.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: BonerJoe on August 06, 2008, 08:25:49 PM
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1. The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. They have greatly increased the life-expectancy of those of us who live in "advanced" countries, but they have destabilized society, have made life unfulfilling, have subjected human beings to indignities, have led to widespread psychological suffering (in the Third World to physical suffering as well) and have inflicted severe damage on the natural world. The continued development of technology will worsen the situation. It will certainly subject human beings to greater indignities and inflict greater damage on the natural world, it will probably lead to greater social disruption and psychological suffering, and it may lead to increased physical suffering even in "advanced" countries.

Prove the points in bold because even the most liberal people I know have tons of evidence where technology has actually restored lost forests as they have in the US to pre-1930s levels just to give one example of how technology has restored our habitat.

So you're saying we need computers and automobiles to grow seedlings and replant forests. The fuck?
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Level 20 Anklebiter on August 06, 2008, 08:26:48 PM
So you're saying we need computers and automobiles to grow seedlings and replant forests. The fuck?

If we want to compute the optimal dispersal patterns (computers) and transport the needed fertilizers and biomass(es).
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: BonerJoe on August 06, 2008, 08:27:41 PM
So you're saying we need computers and automobiles to grow seedlings and replant forests. The fuck?

If we want to compute the optimal dispersal patterns (computers) and transport the needed fertilizers and biomass(es).

You're making it unnecessarily complicated, hun.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: blackie on August 06, 2008, 08:38:28 PM
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139. And note this important difference: It is conceivable that our environmental problems (for example) may some day be settled through a rational, comprehensive plan, but if this happens it will be only because it is in the long-term interest of the system to solve these problems. But it is NOT in the interest of the system to preserve freedom or small-group autonomy. On the contrary, it is in the interest of the system to bring human behavior under control to the greatest possible extent. Thus, while practical considerations may eventually force the system to take a rational, prudent approach to environmental problems, equally practical considerations will force the system to regulate human behavior ever more closely (preferably by indirect means that will disguise the encroachment on freedom.) This isn't just our opinion. Eminent social scientists (e.g. James Q. Wilson) have stressed the importance of "socializing" people more effectively.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Level 20 Anklebiter on August 06, 2008, 08:40:41 PM
Quote
139. And note this important difference: It is conceivable that our environmental problems (for example) may some day be settled through a rational, comprehensive plan, but if this happens it will be only because it is in the long-term interest of the system to solve these problems. But it is NOT in the interest of the system to preserve freedom or small-group autonomy. On the contrary, it is in the interest of the system to bring human behavior under control to the greatest possible extent. Thus, while practical considerations may eventually force the system to take a rational, prudent approach to environmental problems, equally practical considerations will force the system to regulate human behavior ever more closely (preferably by indirect means that will disguise the encroachment on freedom.) This isn't just our opinion. Eminent social scientists (e.g. James Q. Wilson) have stressed the importance of "socializing" people more effectively.

New age unnamed author is not valid. Gimme empirical studies from a named source.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Taors on August 06, 2008, 08:43:23 PM
Bridget, did you ever gain any weight?
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: blackie on August 06, 2008, 08:46:07 PM
New age unnamed author is not valid.
New age  :D

It's by FC....the Freedom Club.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Level 20 Anklebiter on August 06, 2008, 08:47:40 PM
New age unnamed author is not valid.
New age  :D

It's by FC....the Freedom Club.

More or less New Age. Thanks.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: BonerJoe on August 06, 2008, 08:48:34 PM
Gooooooogle. Goooooogle.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Level 20 Anklebiter on August 06, 2008, 08:51:11 PM
Gooooooogle. Goooooogle.

Not my job.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: BonerJoe on August 06, 2008, 08:52:56 PM
Gooooooogle. Goooooogle.

Not my job.

Don't be like that.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Taors on August 06, 2008, 09:16:05 PM
Gooooooogle. Goooooogle.

Not my job.

Don't be like that.

Remember when she freaked out when Lee wanted to ask her a couple of questions?
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: BonerJoe on August 06, 2008, 09:17:19 PM
Gooooooogle. Goooooogle.

Not my job.

Don't be like that.

Remember when she freaked out when Lee wanted to ask her a couple of questions?

I think she just needs to cuddle. With me.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: Taors on August 06, 2008, 09:17:45 PM
Gooooooogle. Goooooogle.

Not my job.

Don't be like that.

Remember when she freaked out when Lee wanted to ask her a couple of questions?

I think she just needs to cuddle. With me.

Too bony.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: mikehz on August 06, 2008, 11:09:20 PM
I picked "other," since what comes in the future is usually something totally unexpected. Probably, some other culture will emerge to overshadow the US, although we likely won't even realize it--any more than the Greeks and Romans realized their own cultures were in decline until it was long gone.

There is an evolutionary process at work. Those societies that flourish are the ones that allow the greatest freedom to produce. The socialists may not like it, but government economic controls thwart economic growth. Learn it, or lose out.
Title: Re: Lets play 'Karnak.'
Post by: trollfreezone on August 07, 2008, 11:41:46 AM
I picked "other," since what comes in the future is usually something totally unexpected. Probably, some other culture will emerge to overshadow the US, although we likely won't even realize it--any more than the Greeks and Romans realized their own cultures were in decline until it was long gone.

There is an evolutionary process at work. Those societies that flourish are the ones that allow the greatest freedom to produce. The socialists may not like it, but government economic controls thwart economic growth. Learn it, or lose out.

You don't think we'll realize it?  I think I realize it right now.