Kosovo is free. Who's next?

Ex-Yugoslavia again - benefiting Muslims

0 (0%)

Ex-Yugoslavia again - benefiting non-Muslims

0 (0%)

Indonesia (West Papua, Aceh, Maluku, etc)

0 (0%)

UK - Scotland

3 (10.3%)

UK - Northern Ireland

2 (6.9%)

UK - Wales

0 (0%)

UK - Other

0 (0%)

Iraq - Sunni / Shia Split

2 (6.9%)

Iraq - Kurdistan (also involves Iran, Turkey, etc)

2 (6.9%)

Iran (other than the Kurds)

1 (3.4%)

Canada - vive le Québec libre

3 (10.3%)

Canada - Maritimes (Small Eastern Provinces)

2 (6.9%)

Canada - Other

0 (0%)

Australia (West, Aborigines Movements, Norfolk Island)

0 (0%)

New Zealand (South Island, Maori, Niue, Cook Islands, etc)

0 (0%)

China - Tibet

1 (3.4%)

China - Inner Mongolia

0 (0%)

China - Other - Muslim

1 (3.4%)

China - Other - Ethnic (not Muslim)

0 (0%)

China - Other - Urban Secession (i.e. Hong Kong)

0 (0%)

EU - Cyprus

0 (0%)

EU - in Spain

1 (3.4%)

EU - in Scandinavia

0 (0%)

EU - other

0 (0%)

Philippines

0 (0%)

India

0 (0%)

Ex-USSR - Caucasus region

2 (6.9%)

Ex-USSR - Ukraine splits in two

2 (6.9%)

Ex-USSR - Russia - Muslim - Chechnya

2 (6.9%)

Ex-USSR - Russia - Muslim - Other

1 (3.4%)

Ex-USSR - Russia - Sibria / Far East

0 (0%)

Ex-USSR - Russia - Other Non-Muslim

0 (0%)

Latin America

1 (3.4%)

Arab World (excl. Israel & Iraq)

0 (0%)

Sub-Saharan Africa

3 (10.3%)

Asia - Other - SouthWest

0 (0%)

Asia - Other - SouthEast

0 (0%)

Asia - Other - Far East

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 5

[Alex Libman]

Excluded are United States movements (most of us would be biased), Palestine (otherwise we'd have a virtual fist-fight), tiny islands, and super-poor countries none of us really care about...  I don't know if I did a good job putting this poll together, so if it turns out unbalanced, incomplete, or otherwise flawed we'll have a "version 2" later.

See also:

• 2008 Kosovo declaration of independence

• List of active autonomist and secessionist movements

[Andy]

Scotland, Ukraine, Quebec

[AntonLee]

I believe I read once that Poland lost the most land area of any country after WW2.   My polack grandfather tells me stories about the government agents riding down dirt roads out to where my family's homes and farms were.  He would tell me that during the war they were visited 3 times. . . once by Polish troops to tell them that they were going to fight the Germans.  Then the Germans came and told them that they were now part of Germany.  Then some years later Soviets told them their role in the Soviet Union. 

they lived on a farm in the middle of nowhere. . . government didn't matter to them, when soldiers came by to tell them that their country had changed. . .they threw up their arms and said 'whatever'

I've always wanted to visit. . . 98% roman catholic is a little scary though in my opinion. 

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

Kurdistan hopefully... yeah?

[markuzick]

Why does the independence of one state from another state necessarily equate with freedom?

[Alex Libman]

Scotland's in the lead so far.  It's interesting how its £16,397 GDP/capita compares to other regions of the UK.  (Note that the figures in that Wikipedia article are in GBP, so after currency conversion for comparison the nominal GDP/capita of the Republic of Ireland is £25,516, and the GSP of Delaware would be £30,165, New Hampshire is £19,165, Mississippi is £12,242, and Québec is £18,913.)

People who vote for a broad area, like Sub-Saharan Africa - please post about any specific movements you're aware of.

Why does the independence of one state from another state necessarily equate with freedom?

Because the opposite of independence is, um, dependence?  Sure, some secession movements may be led by tin-pot dictators that may seem worse than the larger power they were previously subject to, but who are we to make that judgment?  You can colonize peoples into civilization, but not into freedom on your own terms.  Some may choose to put their "national freedom" above their "personal freedom", at least for as long as the former is under perceived threat.  No nation will ever represent all of its citizens perfectly, but if a majority of a group of people have a strong desire for national sovereignty, it would be the lesser of two evils.

[markuzick]

Why does the independence of one state from another state necessarily equate with freedom?

Because the opposite of independence is, um, dependence?  Sure, some secession movements may be led by tin-pot dictators that may seem worse than the larger power they were previously subject to, but who are we to make that judgment?  You can colonize peoples into civilization, but not into freedom on your own terms.  Some may choose to put their "national freedom" above their "personal freedom", at least for as long as the former is under perceived threat.  No nation will ever represent all of its citizens perfectly, but if a majority of a group of people have a strong desire for national sovereignty, it would be the lesser of two evils.

I agree that this would tend to be true, but my sympathy for any independence movement will remain subject to my discretion concerning whether it increases or decreases the prospects for liberty.

If people living in your home state of New Jersey decided to start an independence movement, would you support them unconditionally?

If the goal of this movement was to create a "Marxist socialist paradise" would you still root them on?

If the goal of this movement was to create a Christian theocracy and to institute stoning as punishment for sinners, would they still have your good wishes? What if they were the majority?

[Alex Libman]

Given free migration of people, a theocracy (Marxist or otherwise) in one place would mean fewer theocrats around me personally, because I sure as heck would move away in that situation.

Don't let my recent lack of faith in the Free State Project fool you - just because I don't want to be one of the first test space monkeys doesn't mean I don't like the idea of space travel... 

[moberley]

People who vote for a broad area, like Sub-Saharan Africa - please post about any specific movements you're aware of.

I'm not well informed on Africa (and least of all on the sub-Saharan areas) but a couple of North African groups do come to mind: the Tuareg and the Sahrawi. Tuareg groups have in the recent past declared independence from both Mali and Niger, peace agreements were made in Mali (1992) and Niger (1995). The Sahrawi name is most commonly associated with the Polisario Front which claims the territory of the former Spanish Sahara (usually called Western Sahara now). Polisario operates as a government-in-exile from refugee settlements in neighbouring Algeria, and controls portions of Western Sahara adjacent to the Algerian border. The Morroccon government built large sand walls to block the Sahrawi army (visible on Google Earth) and the sides have a cease fire agreement as of 1991.

Interesting, one of the Tuareg's terms for themselves translates as "the free people."

[Andy]

Maybe you should add Belgium - I guess that comes under EU other.

[Alex Libman]

Yeah, but this forum isn't large enough for polling perfectionism.  No votes for "EU - other".  Overdoing it would make this less fun.