Is Sex Reassignment Surgery Mutilation?

Yes, you're a freak! And society should lock you up somewhere!

6 (16.7%)

No, it's fine by me like boob jobs and rhinoplasty.

23 (63.9%)

Maybe, depends on if the person is a whackadoo in the first place.

7 (19.4%)

Total Members Voted: 17

[wtfk]

I see your point, WTFK -and I'm not being irate with you. Its difficult to attempt comprehension about another persons' demeanor on forums. I wasn't calling you constitutionally ignorant, just making an observation.

In any case, you really shouldn't use the term "constitutional right", because there is no such thing. They may be constitutionally protected rights, and certainly not ALL rights of the people reside on that document.

I refer to individual rights.

[Hittman]

So she shouldn't collect on the taxes that were taken from her either? RIGHTTTTTtttttttttttt. SUREEEEEEEEe. Okay, lets understand this, boy, if you take my money you take my shit. That's the way it works. Make a logic proof to the contrary, and I'll hear you out. Otherwise, you just made a false case. :3 

First off, in response to the tone of your reply, fuck you very much. 

Secondly, the fact that someone stole from it doesn't give it the right to steal back from the rest of us. 

I can see the argument that taxes it was entitled to get benefits up to the amount it paid.  Technically, that's still stealing, because you're not getting your money back, but someone else's, but still, I don't have much of a problem with that.  (I will take what I can get from social security when the time comes).  But what do it's parents have to do with anything?  That just stupid.

I'm very pleased if he can get his gender changed and it's not paid for by violence or the threat of violence. 

Bingo.  That way I don't have to care one way or another. 

I don't want to care.  But if you're taking my money to do it, I have to. 

I so tire of pseudo-statist "libertarians" who happily accept government largesse for their blood pressure medications and don't object to prisoners getting insulin, but who make a big deal about how "I have to pay for that freaky tranny's surgery." 

Non-sequetor.  The government has an obligation to keep a prisoner healthy (especially considering that, in the US at least, there's a 50% chance he shouldn't be there anyway). 

As for paying for BP meds, that's not a valid comparison either.  Sure, I'll agree that there should be private sector alternetives, but if when there aren’t, there's a huge difference between helping someone stay alive and forcing us to pay for an addadicktome. 

But just like government marriage, as long as they exist, they should apple equally to EVERYONE. Expecting others to pay taxes for your shit, but you stepping in to complain when they want their shit taken care of, is theft on your part. 

Another non-sequetor.   I don't have to pay for people to get married, regardless of their gender.  Apples and oranges.

They get all riled over the transgender woman getting her surgery in prison, but they don't get equally riled over the diabetic woman getting her insulin and medical visits for free and talk about how "outrageous" that is with the same degree of upsetness. 

Apples.  Oranges.  The diabetic in prison will die without medical care.  The tranny will do just fine without it. 

Would you prefer "heshe" to "it?"  Your gender is your gender, and if you want to alter it on your own dime, go for it, but no amount of hacking or spackling is going to change your DNA, your real gender.  It's just make-believe carried to an absurd extreme. 

Then nosejobs are mutilation. Boob jobs are mutilation. Circumcisions are mutilations.. 

A little common sense will tell you that having a nose job isn't quite the same as hacking off your genetals and replacing them with something else, but then, I'm seeing very little common sense from the "special" people in this thread.  (And GL, I've respected you up until now.  You need to calm down.) 

But just for the sake of argument, let's say a nose job is the same as a whackadick.  What everyone who isn't all pissy about this is saying that you should be free to do whatever you want with your body, no matter what anyone else may think, as long as you pay for it.  What's so difficult about that?  It's a pretty basic principle. I would think you would have picked up on  it hanging out on a board like this. 

So got any more bullshit I can refute again and again? 

I haven't seen you successfully refute a single point. 

Does the operation involve getting half your brain sucked out? 

I am principled compared to you. 

I guess it does.

Most of us agree that using taxpayer funds is wrong on some or multiple levels, but this is still secondary to the issue of whether or not this surgery is mutilation. 

I disagree.  The issue of whether or not it's mutilation is a non-issue for me.  I think it is, and I think that's obvious, but so what?  Who cares?  BFD.  Take away the taxpayer dollars, and I'll shrug it off. 

And I'd protest just as loudly over taxes being used for a nose job or a boob job. 

-- Brede wins again. 

Really?  Where?  How'd I miss that? 

It's okay, Brokor, I'm just getting tired of fucksticks like wtfk that come to these forums and can't even make a coherent argument for their claims 

So the difference between them and you is what?  You're not a fuckstick? 

BTW, nothing is more unimaginative and  dull than a dictionary argument.  The only thing duller is those who defend them, so don't bother.

Constitutional right to elective surgery. Can't find that. 

I'd say that's in the ninth amendment.  But the right to elective surgery on someone else's dime, hmmm, nothing like that in there, anywhere.

[wtfk]

I would like to point out that hostilities seemed to have ceased.  I'd like to opt out of this topic, and I encourage others to.

[The Muslim Agorist]

Sorry guys, I'm going to have to go with, "yes" on this one. But I'm of the "body is a temple" crowd. By my understanding boob jobs and rhinoplasty are mutilation, and I find the vanity disgusting. However, that doesn't mean that I feel any one has the right to intrude upon your right to mutilate yourselves, or mutilate others if you happen to be a plastic surgeon, tattoo artist or... whatever. Cut off your leg for all I care...

However,
Something I do think is absolutely intolerably unethical is sexual reassignment surgery on infants. When a child is born with gender ambiguous genitals and the doctor and parents conspire to assign a gender... that's just sick. I would not defend that.

[BKO]

I can also place an end to the claim that "my tax dollars pay for xxxx program." - the fact is, not one single penny collected from federal income tax is EVER used for such things. All "money" collected is wholly absorbed by the national debt and transfer payments before any program can ever be considered. It's all a scam designed to make you dependent upon the government for tax incentives and cuts, as the taxation system itself merges the lower and middle income classes while the rich elite continues to capitalize. It is communist distribution of wealth, and it preys upon the poor for support by nagging at social envy.

The whole damn system is complex to those who see it as being legitimate. But in reality, it is nothing short of a pyramid scheme of investment-reinvestment and perpetual debt, which is monetized by the banks. And YES, the banks DO make profit from your debt. Additionally, I urge all people to search for the CAFR, and read up on how state and federal governments HIDE true wealth and manage to keep separate books made public that shows debt. If your REAL taxes were truly applied properly, then you would see a profit, not a continual deficit for state governments. The federal end, however is forever indebted with no hope of ever being paid off because the money itself is loaned at interest, with compound interest on top. It is mathematically impossible to pay off a debt of usury in this instance.

[ladyattis]

Any usury can be paid off if the debt of a real objective value [X amount of Y]. In this case, dollars are arbitrary so they don't pay any debt unfortunately.

-- Brede

[BKO]

You are correct, Attis. I was stating that it cannot be paid off in dollars. And your point is an excellent one indeed...

The collateral is bonds. And when the loan is not paid, the debtors collect. And the property is not your own. And the land that was once America's is now the property of the new owner. One must ask exactly how the debt is refinanced, and what is being traded for this perpetual debt based system? The deficit continues to climb...

When are the bankers gonna come to collect?